Morning Skate: Blues at Red Wings
by Amerinadian on Dec 15, 2010 7:00 AM CST
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PrintThe St. Louis Blues roll into town for a date against the Red Wings, looking to avenge the 7-3 beatdown the Wings put on them in their first meeting this season. The Blues are a little banged up, but they still have one of the premier goalies in the division in Jaroslav Halak manning the pipes. The Blues really cooled down after their scorching start, and currently sit in dead last in the Central Division, 1 point behind Columbus.
The Blues leading scorer is David Backes, and he only has 20 points in 28 games. Alexander Steen and Andy McDonald share the team lead in goals with 8 apiece. Offense is definitely the main weakness of this team.
St Louis Game Time is your SB Nation Blues' site.
More after the jump including where you can make your predictions.
- The Wings will definitely be looking to bounce back after a 5-0 loss to the Kings on Monday night. The Wings carried play for the majority of the game and fired 51 shots at Jonathan Quick, but they were unable to solve the young Kings goalie. How will the Wings fare against another top netminder in Halak?
- Speaking of Halak, he has fallen off the record pace he was setting earlier this season, but is still sporting the 9th best GAA in the league at 2.24, and he has 3 SO on the year. Another goal like this certainly wouldn't hurt the Wings' chances.
- The Red Wings currently have the 2nd best offense in the NHL, scoring 3.36 goals per game. The Blues are 24th at 2.46 goals per game. The Wings will want to score early and often to get the Blues out of their comfort zone.
- This was mentioned in a fanpost yesterday, but ESPN (yuck, it hurts me just typing that) has a story about TPH, Nicklas Lidstrom, wondering whether he is the greatest defenseman of all time? Is this even a question? What say you? Does Nick out-rank Bobby Orr or Ray Bourque in your minds?
- SLGT would have you believe that Jay McClement is worthy of the Selke Trophy, and they use colour charts and big words to sway you to their side. To that, I counter with this:
- In case any of you were wondering, we're going to be updating what's going on in the 3 WIIM fantasy hockey leagues pretty soon. Maybe we can get a little good-natured trash talking happening between all of you.
- Score Prediction: In the last 4 games, I've picked the Wings twice and the opponent twice. I'm 0-for-4. I think it's time to admit I just plain suck at this. With that said, because I'm a jinx, I'm going 3-2 Blues because I think the Blues are going to come out with guns blazing, and Halak is going to make a few big saves to keep them in it.
- Player Prediction: I'm going with the Mule, Johan Franzen, because I think he's due to have a big night, and he will score both Wing goals.
- Around the League: The Penguins lost for the first time in a long time, and it was to their bitter rivals, the Flyers. While I loathe the Pens with every fiber of my being, a 12-game winning streak is very impressive. Oh, and the Leafs and Oilers played, and people watched (maybe).
- Off-Topic Discussion: Casey is off writing exams, as a lot of you are. So, I thought it would be fun to have everyone name the worst final exam they ever wrote. Mine was a Japanese history exam that was 5 essay questions in 2 hours. I got a C, and skipped out of the class because I was finally done.
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Nick Lidstrom vs Orr
I think it is really a hard to compare to players from different eras… Lidstrom’s the best Dman i have ever seen and he is without a doubt the best Dman during the time that he played. If Orr was playing now i think he would struggle but as they say he revolutionized the Defenseman’s role. Whereas Lidstrom perfected what it is to be a Defenseman and would dominate in any era. So really its a question of who do you think is the better player or who do you think is the more important player to the sport.
If Lidstrom had played then and been the first offensive defenseman he would be the more important player but Orr happened to be born then and was the one to do it. Instead Lidstrom’s simply is the most perfect player (not just defenseman) to ever play.
sorry this post is kinda convoluted
I agree
It’s virtually impossible to compare players from different areas. And I normally try to steer clear of “Best Ever” debates because they are so subjective and usually end me with me ramming my head against a table. But Orr as best defenseman has been met with so much agreement among not only hockey “experts” but fans who saw him play as well, it’s hard to ignore. I think that Lidstrom’s offense has always been underrated, and Orr’s defense was overshadowed by his offensive greatness.
In my mind, he has been and will probably always be the greatest defenseman I ever saw play the game.
I hate Melrose...
but he made a great point on espn.com….Orr changed the way the game is played. So I think that fact combined with the overwhelming amount of people who claim he was just amazing (I am only 22, never came close to seeing him play)…I think Orr has to get the nod at #1.
Lidstrom is easily the best defenseman in this generation of hockey. He is going up against bigger, stronger, faster players and is still performing at an elite level at age 40….I think he is #2 in history, which is no shame at all.
by HockeyGuy9125 on Dec 15, 2010 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
Bobby freakin Orr hands down
I was fortunate to see him play and no one comes close to him. Best skater I’ve ever seen, great goal scorer and could fight. You knew he how great he was when he got the puck behind the net and folks in the stands would shut up and inch forward in their seats in anticipation. If you were watching at home on TV you shoved your goofy cousin out from in front of the set so you wouldn’t miss anything. Very few players have fans genuflectiing, Orr had thousands.
Just a chew toy for the hockey gods
Sumitted
4-2 Wings – Todd Bertuzzi
I had an Irish History final in college that, at the end of writing in my bluebook(s), I considered adding “please don’t fail me because you’ve now ruined my chances of becoming either a sculptor or a brain surgeon.” My hand hurt for days after writing out those essay answers.
by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 15, 2010 7:17 AM CST reply actions
5-2 Franzen
I hope Ozzie gets the start tonite and can go for #400
by kylegroombridge on Dec 15, 2010 7:33 AM CST reply actions
Word is that Jimmy's getting the start
I think Ozzie’s next start will be Friday against the Hawks.
by Amerinadian on Dec 15, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
submitted
6-4 Red Wings, Todd Bertuzzi
i don’t know: i consider myself to be a good test-taker, and no final exam is really sticking out in my mind really—but then again, i’m only a freshman in college. i’ll probably have one to talk about by the time i graduate.
and i was legitimately stunned by that ESPN article: so there is hope for hockey competency on ESPN . . .
I haven’t been doing the predictions. And let’s not discuss exams till they’re a little further away…I’m not to impressed with mine right now.
As a slightly off-topic statement, Riley Sheahan got cut from Team Canada. Does anyone follow World Juniors? Or will anyone follow World Juniors?
I usually do
It’s a lot harder to do here than in Canada, where they show every game of the tournament. But I do plan on staying up-to-date with scores and watch when I can.
I love the WJ's.
It’s hard to keep up, yeah, but I’m on break when it happens, so there’s not much else to do. I love keeping up with the younger guys, and a lot of NCAA players are on the American team, especially.
Thank you NHL Network....
Ever since I got the NHL Network on satellite, I have been watching the WJC. It has been extremely entertaining hockey to follow…especially the run the USA went on last year. That gold medal game was epic….Hopefully they can do it again.
by HockeyGuy9125 on Dec 15, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
on Thanksgiving when they showed the replay
i immediately recorded that shit. my loudest and biggest fan moment ever was when John Carlson scored that goal in overtime. as soon as it left his stick, i knew, but my uncle who was watching the game with me saw me react and didnt know what to do since he probably didnt see the puck go in. he shot it, and i practically exploded “SCOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!!!” loudly enough for the whole neighborhood to hear. i was running and jumping up and down all around the house.
that was the first WJC i followed, thanks to NHL Network. ones of my best moments EVER as a fan of hockey.
by uvgt2bkdnme on Dec 15, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
submitted
i was going to do that reverse thingy too and pick the Blues but i didn’t…5-3 Wings…Z player of the game…crush the Blues!
LETS GO RED WINGS!
2011 will be the year....better be....
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
You can look at TPH vs. Orr two ways.
First, I think Orr is the greatest D-man. But there are two ways to analyze it. 1) Based on what they did with their time while they played. 2) Based on how long they were able to sustain greatness.
- easily gives you Lidstrom, but then we’d have to ignore the great players who were cut down too soon—Bossy, Bure, Lemieux, etc. But it’s also a much more complete body of work.
5-3 Wings...Z as POG
bounce back game….maybe, hopefully. Will not be around for game threads until next week…..damn exams.
Worst exam I ever wrote…A premodern law class’s exam this year. I have never wrote so much bull shit in my life. it was brutal…which makes it even better that I did well on it lol
4-3 Wings with Pavel as PotG
Datsyuk has been hot lately. Worst exam I ever had was an ACS inorganic chemistry exam. The sad thing is that I had a ten page essay exam on ancient China and that was easier than this thing. The chem exam was multiple choice but more than half of the material was not covered because it was written by some “scholars” who get their jollys knowing that they screw people over on their exams.
In response to Jay McClement for Selke
Aside from the video, he currently has a -12 rating. No one since 1982 has won the Selke with a minus rating. Sometimes guys get bad ratings from teammates (Brad Stuart being paired with Ericsson last year), but it’s unlikely he has a legitimate shot until his rating improves.
Agreed
They use SH time as a big indicator, and somehow on one of their posts they had Pavel’s Quality of Competition as the lowest, which is laughable since he is regularly matched up against the other team’s top line. I didn’t read enough to see how they figured out the QoC, because I was too busy laughing.
by Amerinadian on Dec 15, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
My AP Physics exam three years ago was easily the worst. 3 hours of college level calc and ridiculously detailed story problems just about killed me. Somehow, though, it was my best AP Exam score of the three I took and I didn’t even manage to finish the damn thing (though, no one managed, so maybe you weren’t supposed to finish it)
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 15, 2010 10:20 AM CST reply actions
My prediction was
4-3 Wings with Cleary as the player of the game. I am also going to make a wild prediction and say that Cleary’s goal doesn’t come off his stick, it gets deflected off his body. But he is still player of the game because of strong net front all night and the team working hard to distribute the load after Monday.
Completely random topic
I need to change my avatar. I’ve been rocking the “Simpsons-as-Beatles” theme for a while, but want to switch it up. Do I go with:
a) a classy photo of a Wing doing something great?
b) an unclassy photo of a Wing doing something stupid?
c) something completely unrelated to hockey (like I have now)?
d) Mr Peanut?
Thoughts and suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.
Go with Mr. Peanut punching Barry Melrose in the dick.
by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 15, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
I’ll get Casey on it. My photoshop skills are limited to MS Paint, and I can’t even draw a straight line.
by Amerinadian on Dec 15, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Worst Exams:
One of the following:
Structures 2 Final exam….all about design of reinforced concrete, steel supports, bending of supporting beams/columns, etc. I escaped with a C- and was happy with that.
OR
My Fundamentals of Engineering exam: 8 hour exam over all things engineering learned in college. First of 2 exams to become a licensed engineer. I passed and get to take the follow-up (Professional Engineering) exam next fall to actually get my license. Then I will get to put “P.E.” after my name, too
by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 15, 2010 11:58 AM CST reply actions
You're gonna hate me....
But I loved taking the F.E. exam, it was so much fun. Mainly cause I’ve always been a crammer/test taker rather than consistent book worm. What state are you in? I know you’re required, in most places, to work four years after you obtain your EIT (pass the FE).
I'm such a dumb fuck........
Red White and a Mile High……………and I asked what freaking state you’re in……….
A person has to say Orr is number one.
But I can say there is no one closer to Lidstrom at number two. I think he is far better than Harvey or Bourqe.
Worst final: My final for Mammalogy and Zoology. We had 3 hours to finish 6 essays. Each one was a very in depth question about either purpose, strength, genesis, design, or a combination of the 4. My had was about to explode by the time I was done. When I wrote my review for the class I said, “If I only had one hour to live I would spend it in your class. You have an amazing ability to make an hour feel like a lifetime.”
Worst final?
Anything math. That, though, is why I love graduate school- no finals at all, just really long papers.
Now, if it’s the worst final I’ve ever graded………..
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd120810s.gif
Ban Devorskis from officiating Wings games.
2010 Big Ten Champs- On Wisconsin!
by Mardiros Efendi on Dec 15, 2010 1:41 PM CST reply actions
Had to pick the Blues
3-2 Blues…let me hope that antagonism prevails, again!
I celebrate Festivus!!!
The greatest of all time...
Bobby Orr played his last NHL game shortly before I was born. My only chance to watch him play has been grainy classic game footage from his all too brief tenure in the NHL. But (perhaps like many of you) one of the first indelible images etched in my mind of an unparalleled sport was this
Orr sailing through the ether, mouth agape, body extended, and an enraptured crowd in the background. Bobby Orr, sealing the most sought after and hard won trophy in all of professional sports for his historic franchise. This moment defined a career, the likes of which had never before been seen, and never will again.
It’s easy to begin with the hardware he accumulated. A Calder, 8 Norris trophies, three Harts, the first 2-time Smythe winner, and, more amazingly, two Art Ross trophies. Bobby Orr also drank from Lord Stanley’s chalice twice in his short career. It is hard to comprehend just how a defenseman could accumulate such hardware. His two Ross trophies alone are an incredibly breathtaking accomplishment. No other defenseman has even come close.
Bobby Orr was a superlative talent who revolutionized the position. Perhaps more importantly, Orr’s style ushered in the modern era of the NHL.
None of this should diminish what Nicklas Lidstrom has accomplished in his career. Not only has he distinguished himself in all formats (i.e. NHL and International play), but he has been one of the greatest ambassadors of the game. Nicklas Lidstrom will go down as the greatest defenseman of my lifetime. I am grateful for the opportunity to have seen him play countless times in person (including the 8-2 drubbing in Denver conference finals sweep en route to a Stanley Cup championship), and each time I am amazed by the skill, intensity, and intelligence with which he approaches the game. All of us here are well aware of Lidstrom’s resume, so I won’t belabor the point.
The easy way out is to say that you can’t compare across eras. You can argue that Orr had an advantage because he played in a time where players would often chain smoke in the locker room between periods. A time where the over all skill level was lesser than it is now. A time where the speed of the game was slower. One can also argue that Orr flourished in a time where it was more difficult to do so. The equipment was of a much poorer standard. The ice making equipment was less efficient and the quality of ice was generally bad (making Orr’s skating that much more amazing). Composite sticks weren’t available. And the overall skill level was decreased (meaning Orr did not have the teammates that Lidstrom did, likely impacting his statisticals). Vice versa, you can argue that Lidstrom faces tougher competition on a nightly basis, and plays in a better/faster/stronger league. He also benefits from better ice, better teammates, better strength and conditioning personnel/training, and smoke free facilities. I argue that this line of reasoning ultimately cancels out and the talent of the players in question remains.
There is no dispute that Orr and Lidstrom are generational talents. Orr redefined the position and ushered hockey into the modern era. Lidstrom perfected Orr’s model with style, grace, and thoughtfulness. Their careers will sit side-by-side in the Hockey Hall of Fame and serve as role models to all aspiring young defensemen.
But Orr will retain, in perpetuity, the title of the greatest defenseman of all time.
by LeftWingLocked on Dec 15, 2010 2:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well put.
Also, I was at that 8-2 game in Denver. What a show.
by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 15, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Most fun...
…I’ve had in an arena that was half empty half-way through the game.
by LeftWingLocked on Dec 15, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Lidstrom -- I said this earlier in the fanpost
Orr did revolutionize the game immensely making him #1 of course I wish i were around to see it…
but in seeing others bourque/niedermeyer/stevens/ etc
I am just going to utter the same thing i said
Lidstrom is imo the best defensive defenseman in history
I know orr was good – but from reading it he wasn’t ‘ridiculously responsible’ on defense
As for tonights game
Tight one
but we pull out after Babcock gets on the team
3-2 wings – Datsyuk dangles his way to POTG
Rec'd
Absolutely beautiful, and spot on. Comparing Orr to Lidstrom is like comparing Howe to Gretzky; it’s virtually impossible to do, both because of the times they played in but also because of their style of play. Like you, I never had a chance to see Orr play. However, I can’t ignore the number of people across the league, Bruins fans and rivals, who all say that pound for pound, Orr was the best defenseman they have ever seen.
Like in football with the Manning vs Brady debate, I simply step back, admit that they are both great, and never forget that we had the privilege of watching a player of Nick’s greatness play for our favourite team, contributing to unrivaled success.
First things first
It’ll be 4-1 Wings tonight. Jimmy is going to go into rebound-eff-you mode and Z will bury 2 goals, including the game winner, to snag PotG.
Worst exam I ever wrote (wasn’t even a final) was an essay test on The Great Gatsby. I say it was the worst because I only read the first 25 pages of the book. Fortunately, I’m an expert at restating the same thing (in this case, the exam question) 15 different ways to take up space, so I ended up with a B on the test.
Lidstrom vs. Orr. At the end of the day, who cares? Like LeftWingLocked said above, they’ll sit side-by-side in the HHOF in naught but a few short years. And until then, since Orr’s retired, that means we’ve got the best d-man that’s still playing on our team, so let’s just enjoy the hell out of it and watch everybody else in the league get denied when they try to chip the puck past St. Nick.
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
One of my favorite...
…Nick games was a couple of years ago against Chicago. Babcock had Lidstrom up against Toews/Kane. EVERY time the Chicago line got ahold of the puck and Kane would take it up ice, he’d hit the neutral zone and try and chip it deep. And every time Nick would simultaneously bat it down and stop on a dime, eyes up the entire time looking for the outlet pass. This happened all game, and by the 3rd period, Kane looked utterly defeated and demoralized.
Nick Lidstrom is like Kasparov out there. He’s always 3 to 5 moves ahead of everyone else.
by LeftWingLocked on Dec 15, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
I remember that game
I think Kane actually mentioned that in his post-game interview, something along the lines of “Holy shit, I didn’t know anybody could do that!”
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
That's the one...
…and it’s also the beauty of Lidstrom’s game. He does things out there that no one else can do, and he does it night in, night out. Unfortunate that none of it shows up on the stats sheet.
It’s a damned shame that Lidstrom’s never considered for Hart.
by LeftWingLocked on Dec 15, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
We should start tracking Web Gems
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
Worst final?
Took a basic Physics class in my sophomore year. Since I’d decided on a bio major by that point, I took the easier, less calc-focused version, since it wasn’t required, and since physics came pretty easily to me way back in those days, I rocked the first couple of exams, even acing one. The final was the last one I had that semester, on the other side of a weekend from the rest, and the flu started hitting over that weekend. I probably shouldn’t have gone in for that exam, let’s just put it that way. I didn’t puke or nothing, but I scored somewhere in the 40s, where ordinarily, I probably would have hit 70+ without even studying.
I'm expecting 100% improvement from the Lions this season.
One note regarding the preview...
by saying the Blues are dead last in the division, it makes it sound like they’ve fallen off terribly. It is worth mentioning that while the Blues are in last place right now, they’re only 3 points behind 2nd-place Nashville.
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
I know
But dead last has that nice ring to it. I’ll use that phraseology for every team except the Blue Jackets, because I don’t hate them the way I do the other 3 Central teams.
Fair enough
In related news, Chicago enters today outside the playoff bubble, so there’s that.
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
3-1, Wings Z=PotG
and im gonna take a long shot here and say Z gets a hat trick and we shall enjoy curly fires!
Curly fires
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
fries
srry my mouth started to water and i got hungry
Bobby Orr versus Nick Lidstrom debate
Nobody ever accidentally added an N to Orr’s last name.
All I can say is that Lidstrom is the best defenseman I’ve ever seen. I know that Orr revolutionized the way defense is played in the NHL, realizing that it could be more offensive, but in the same vein, one could say that Teddy Roosevelt was the best football player of all time for forcing them to invent the forward pass and changing the way the game was played (although, that’s not as far-fetched as anybody unfamiliar with Teddy Roosevelt might think, the guy was a goddamn classy dynamo).
If Lidstrom isn’t the best of all time, I don’t think that bothers him, so it probably shouldn’t bother me. I’ll fight to the death anybody who ever tries to tell me he’s not the smartest hockey player ever though.
by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 15, 2010 3:22 PM CST reply actions
I challange you to a duel!
It will be in the form of Rock’em Sock’em Robots!
Harvester of tires, master of bad humor.
Troll nation unite!
4-2 Wings
Franzen goes into “I shoot I score” mode to give us a happy Curly day tomorrow.
Lidstrom vs. Orr? Meh, I don’t care about the debate. Lidstrom is amazing to watch and I’m just going to enjoy doing that.
The worst exam I ever had was a calculus midterm back in undergrad. I scored a 42/100… and got a B+. Gigantic exam curves because your professors are dicks: that’s the Michigan difference.
Orr vs. Lidstrom
I put this comment on the other post, but as long as you brought it up again, I’ll repost here too.
The fact that Bobby Orr says that he "loves to watch Nick play" speaks volumes in my book.
Yes, Orr did change the game, and for that – Melrose is probably right in thinking that Nicky gets to be #2 or below and is not in the conversation for #1…..but (you knew there was a but coming)…..
Orr had no competition for Norris Trophies when he played – or next to no competition at least, so if you want to measure it on the Norris standard, then Orr has Nicky by two – but without competition, it’s an arguable point. However, St. Nick has had beaucoup competition for the Norris in his career – Pronger, Bourque, Salming, MacInnes, Niedermeyer, Leetch, etc. A bit tougher to win that prize with competitors like that around you.
Ok, so Orr changed the game….well, what about the Wings? Haven’t they changed the game too?? They’re still the primary puck possession team in the NHL. They still go backwards with the pass or backwards in their zone more than any other team anywhere….and who is the leader of the team???? Nick Lidstrom. Maybe he didn’t do it single-handedly as everyone gives Orr credit for, but within the team concept, Lidstrom has done it better than most (to the tune of 6 trophies to date….oops, I covered that already).
Best stick ever – Yes, Nick Lidstrom
Smartest player ever – Yes, Nick Lidstrom (Hi JJ !!)
Best Defenseman of his "era" – Yes, Nick Lidstrom
Most "complete" Defenseman ever – sorry Bobby….Yes, Nick Lidstrom (on the ice, doesn’t take penalties, playing time, shutting down top lines, leads/QB on the PP, leads the PK…I’m sure there are more
Best Defenseman on the "Longevity" scale – Yes, Nick Lidstrom
Best Defenseman Ever???? – tough call – but Nick is right there. If he’s not #1, then he’s absolutely #2 (sorry Ray, sorry Scott, sorry Chris, sorry Chelly, sorry Al, sorry Borje, sorry Brian).
Bottom line – Greatest/Best Ever?? It depends entirely on your measurement scale. So, riddle me this – would you rather have Bobby Orr on your team for 8 years or Nick Lidstrom on your team for 20 years – each of them playing at the level that they played or continue to play at???
If you answer that with Nick Lidstrom – then you have your answer as to who the Best Defenseman Ever truly is now don’t you??
Smitty
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