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Haters Gonna Hate, But 400 Is A Reality: Wings 4 - Avalanche 3 (OT)

I guess the old saying that "third time's the charm" is true. It's finally happened. We can stop talking about it. Chris Osgood has 400 wins as an NHL goaltender, and he earned the milestone in fairly spectacular fashion, making 46 saves en route to a 4-3 OT victory against the Avalanche.

Matt Duchene (who I secretly wish was playing for Canada at the WJC) got the Avs on the board when he deposited a rebound past Chris Osgood. The Wings answered on the power play when Jiri Hudler (stop rubbing your eyes: it's the right name) put a shot past Peter Budaj. The Avs got the lead back less than a minute later when T.J. Galiardi scored the nightly "soft" goal on Osgood. The Wings spent the majority of the first chasing the Avs all over the ice, but after killing off an extended 5-on-3, the Wings tied the game again when Johan Franzen ripped a shot past Budaj. The Wings spent most of the second period in their own zone, and were bailed out as Osgood made 23 saves in the period alone. The Wings woke up a bit in the third and took their first lead of the game when Nicklas Lidstrom scored the Wings' third power play goal of the night. Unfortunately, giving the highest scoring team in the NHL 7 power plays is going to lead to trouble, and Duchene scored his second of the night after Niklas Kronwall took a tripping penalty with under three minutes to go in the third. The Wings were able to hang on and get the game to OT. In the extra period, Kronwall atoned for his earlier mistake and buried a Henrik Zetterberg past Budaj to give Osgood the win and bump the Wings up another 2 points ahead of everyone else in the West.

The game will forever be known as the game that Osgood got the big win, but there's a lot more to take from this victory. Follow me after the jump where we wrap this game up in a neat little bow.

Star-divide

  • I'll start with Osgood. Ozzie, I said some harsh things about you after your last performance. I said that we were through and I was never going to defend you again. Tonight, I didn't fault you for the first goal, but then you went and let that second goal in, and had you been in front of me, a drink would have hit your face. But then something happened: you woke up. I don't know what happened, but you were spectacular tonight, and you earned that win. Without you, the Wings enter the third period down at least 3 goals. You were the difference, and I congratulate you on your accomplishment. It really hurt me to talk about you the way I did last game, because I've always thought you were under-appreciated and I'm sincerely happy for you. Now that you have this monkey off your back, we can all go ahead and just focus on the only goal left for the season: winning the Stanley Cup.
  • In case you weren't aware, Ozzie is your Player of the Game, and not just for sentimental reasons. He was a monster out there after the first period. I will not say another disparaging word about him tonight, because it's his night, and I'm classy like that.
  • Totally unrelated and off-topic, but did anyone else catch the guy sitting behind the Wings bench at the beginning of the game? He was sitting between a Wings fan and an Avs fan, and he was wearing a Blackhawks shirt and hat. I didn't know the bandwagon went all the way out to Denver.
  • Lost in all of the Osgood-celebrations is the fact that Nicklas Lidstrom had 4 more points tonight, racking up a goal and 3 assists. He was also even on the plus/minus despite the fact the Wings had 4 power play goals. He broke up a 2-on-1 in the second while the game was tied, and was a monster in his own end all game. I defy anyone to tell me there has been a better defenseman this year in the NHL.
  • We're all feeling really good about this win, but let's face facts: the Wings were badly out-played in the first two periods, and this was a game that they could easily have lost if not for Osgood's play. The excuses were ready to go: back-to-back games in a different city, lost players due to injury (including Tomas Holmstrom and Justin Abdelkader both going out of the lineup at different times during the game), and their schedule has been brutal. If the roles were reversed, we'd be talking about how well the Wings played but it was just "one of those games"; it's nice to be on the other side of one of those results for once.
  • You know how I know the Avalanche are bad? Jiri Hudler has 2 goals this season. I'll give you 5 guesses who he has scored both of those goals against. In all seriousness, Hudler looked good tonight, including scoring the Wings' first power play goal of the night. However, did anyone else find it incredibly ironic that he only shot after his pass attempt was blocked?
  • Good thing the refs let the them play, eh? 13 power plays, and I think at least half of them were from some "embellishment" by a player (on either team). Thank goodness the Avs penalty killing unit is so bad, especially at home. About halfway through the game I wrote the following: "Wings can win if they score on PP - won't win game at even strength". Now if only I could pick the PotG correctly.

There was a ton of interesting things from this game: the fans booing Bertuzzi (psst Murph: Av fans booing Bert is the same as us booing Claude - it's going to happen, so don't question it); Kris Draper's battlefront-flashback where he unleased a booming slapshot from just outside the crease that caught Shattenkirk in the face (thankfully he was not injured); Jan Mursak not looking completely out of place in his first NHL game, where he both took and drew a penalty; Kronwall atoning for his penalty late in the third that led to the tying goal by scoring the game winner; and another 2 points to give the Wings a 3 point lead in the Western Conference and vaulted them into a tie for first in the NHL with the Penguins. But this night will always belong to Chris Osgood, only the 10th member of the 400-win club. Congratulations to Ozzie on this accomplishment: now go get Cup number 4.

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Woo Ozzy!

I do not envy JJs counting of his big saves for CSSI.

by Brion on Dec 27, 2010 11:33 PM CST reply actions  

I just want to say

that I’m an ozzy fan who has been trying his absolute best not to hop on the “ozzy sucks” bandwagon. It’s been hard some nights but this wasn’t one of them—I’m ecstatic to see him come out with an effort like this and hope he can make it a habit. viva ozzy!

No Limits.

by arkanfel on Dec 27, 2010 11:40 PM CST reply actions  

Amen

My rant after his last game was more out of frustration than my actually disliking him. I’ve long maintained that over the course of his career, he has never been given the credit he deserves. However, this year his play has been wildly inconsistent.

The one thing I am happiest about tonight is the fact that he really earned the win, and it wasn’t a night where he played like shit but his team bailed him out. He let in a bad goal (the second one), but after that he was spectacular. He was the first star tonight, and even some Avs fans are (grudgingly) admitting that he stole the game.

by Amerinadian on Dec 27, 2010 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Completely with you!

“I’ve long maintained that over the course of his career, he has never been given the credit he deserves. However, this year his play has been wildly inconsistent.”

Ozzie was even good in St. Louis and with the Islanders – and those were Bad teams man, Bad.

There is always one goal per game, at least this year there is, that is soft. He really does live up to his idol Grant Fuhr – “you don’t have to make all the saves, you just have to make the last one.”

The games when Ozzie plays are always – “nice job Ozzie”, followed at some point by “ah shit Ozzie! Really?!” But, that Cup in 2008 wouldn’t be ours without him, it wouldn’t, and we all know it.

And, you gotta like him admitting in the post game with Trevor Thompson – “I’d like the 2nd one back, but other than that, yes, I thought I played well”. The dude mans-up, every time – and now he at least looks like he’s 26 instead of only 14.

Kendal

by Kendal on Dec 28, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I still believe

that Datsyuk was dressed as Hudler for that goal. I’m absolutely convinced this is true until Hudler scores while Datsyuk is also on the ice.

Harvester of tires, master of bad humor.
Troll nation unite!

by onevilklown on Dec 27, 2010 11:40 PM CST reply actions  

Ozzie! Ozzie!

I never stopped believin!! Congrats on a spectacular 400th!

by InMDmissingtheD on Dec 27, 2010 11:41 PM CST reply actions  

OZZIE!!!

Didnt watch the game, but from what I’ve heard, he was spectacular and really deserved this win. My hat off to him

Go for it

by DetroitSports on Dec 28, 2010 12:05 AM CST reply actions  

Truly

A well deserved 400. On the flipside I cannot take another hockey game where we were found wanting on the offensive end of the floor.
Are we starting to see what appears to be the harbinger of multi-point games from Hudler? I sure hope that is the case….
We need all the offense we can get

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 28, 2010 12:10 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

i just saw the highlights on FSN final score

i cant believe i missed this game (granted, i was preparing for relatives coming over later tonight) because my jaw dropped on the saves Osgood made. Congratulations to #30, pretty much the first and only Red Wings goalie i’ve seen consistently over my lifetime as a Red Wings fan.

by uvgt2bkdnme on Dec 28, 2010 12:19 AM CST reply actions  

Two things

1. Ozzy’s performance on his 400th win was so big that we’re barely even talking about Hudler scoring in a close game and getting an assist.

2. It’s funny that we don’t have a single player with a positive +/- on the night even though we won because all our goals were on the powerplay.

by Alex Joppie on Dec 28, 2010 12:26 AM CST reply actions  

Ozzie, Ozzie

Congrats to Ozzie on #400 and for an outstanding performance.
Also, have been a die-hard Ozzie fan through the good and bad supporting him against the haters for a long time….sooooo happy for him tonight.
Ozzie, Lids, Homer and Draper are the 4 Wings left from the ‘90sm, but all played like they were much younger men on a mission tonight,.
Agreed that it wasn’t the best played game, but as Graham said, tonight will always be Ozzie’s night. And, if couldn’t be at the Joe, beating the Avs at home is about as good as it gets.

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 28, 2010 12:50 AM CST reply actions  

Blackhawks fans

There were actually quite alot of them there tonight. Red Wing Bashing is pretty much all we agree on so they come out for any Avs-Wings or Avs-Hawks games.

The thing I like about these games is the feel in the Can….it was really something tonight, just like it was every night during our sellout streak. The crowd didn’t quiet down for pretty much the entire first period (including at least 4 or 5 thousand Wings fans, which is embarrassing). We let your people get away with a “Let’s go Red Wings” chant once because we weren’t paying attention, but it was quickly followed up by an even louder “Red Wings Suck” chant. And the Bertuzzi bashing was in full strength, but that actually has nothing to do with the Wings as you know.

Congrats to Osgood, he played great. Although we now know, after tonight and that game in last year’s playoffs, that any team that gets 45+ shots on net at Pepsi Center automatically loses. And why does Draper hate Cody Mac?

MHH: Mr. Howard, Doctor Jones will see you now.

by JackAvsFan on Dec 28, 2010 2:48 AM CST reply actions  

The thing I like about these games is the feel in the Can

Heh…heh… he likes the feel in the can.

/12 years old.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 6:56 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

It sounded like it. There almost seemed to be a playoff-like atmosphere in the building, and I know that Denver has had their share of attendance issues in the past, so a full barn with vocal fans makes for a much more enjoyable experience.

The booing of Bertuzzi is going to happen, and no Red Wing fan should take offense. I’d be more surprised if they didn’t boo him, but I know he’ll always receive that treatment no matter what the logo on the front of the sweater is.

And why does Draper hate Cody Mac?

He’s an Av.

by Amerinadian on Dec 28, 2010 7:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Or maybe it was Cody just trying to get under Draper’s skin. He did a quick circle into the Wings zone as the teams took the ice for the 2nd. Draper gave him a little bump but you could see he was retraining the urge to deck him.

MHH: Mr. Howard, Doctor Jones will see you now.

by JackAvsFan on Dec 28, 2010 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Could be

Macleod seemed to be stirring things up every time he was out there with some little scrums after whistles. Draper may not have liked it and wanted to do something, but the Wings aren’t built for that kind of retaliation. I remember Macleod from the series in 2008 when he flung the octopus in the stands (which was admittedly funny).

by Amerinadian on Dec 28, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Ozzie! Ozzie!

Sorry Jack, but on tv we could also quite plainly hear the many Ozzie! Ozzie! chants throughout the game….and yes, the game sure did have a playoff feel to it. Could feel that electricity through tv, too…almost like the good ol’ days [sigh].
BTW Big Bert has heard it before and it just makes him play harder…so haters keep booing.

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 28, 2010 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. We were distracted with our collective thought of “how the fuck didn’t that go in?” didn’t notice the Ozzie chants.

MHH: Mr. Howard, Doctor Jones will see you now.

by JackAvsFan on Dec 28, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

That's funny

You “let us get away with one” Let’s Go Red WIngs chant? I suppose that would be accurate if you count 2.5 hours of straight chanting as one chant. Section 314 was packed fulled of Wings fans who kept it going And, seriously, is your team so bad that you have to cheer against your opponent rather than for your own team? After the game, all conversation on the concourse and stairswas drwoned out by those of us wearing red twisting the knife and chanting “Let’s Go Red Wings.”
Also, 4-5,000 Wings fans is a gross underestimate. 40% of the crowd (total crowd last night was ~20,000) was wearing red.
Great game last night, but the Avs fans certainly got bitter after the game. I didn’t get heckled so much before the game, but after the game all the unpleasant bitterness really came out (downright nasty stuff, too).

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

So what did you end up putting on your sign?

Or were you the one in the Red Wings jersey holding the “400” sign that got on television last night?

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

My sign

just said “#400” (black outline with red fill) and said “OZZIE!” in the corner (smaller letters). I haven’t heard from friends or family that they saw me so I don’t think I was on TV. Also, our seats were the second row from the ceiling, and it is pretty rare for the cameras to show people up there.
My jaw hurts today from being clenched for so much of the game and from all the chanting (yeah my voice is also shot today). Lots of “Ozzie” chanting, I even got a few of those chants started after big saves (I have a big voice when I choose to use it).

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah

apparently it was a good luck charm.
Will post a pic of me w/ it on here later when I get home.

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

so true

glad you got out of there alive…damn animals lol

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 28, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah

some of the comments were pretty despicable. The worst of them were completely unprovoked, except for my jersey and the sign at my side. I won’t get into all of them (I simply don’t have the time to) but some of the lowlights included:
Casting aspersions on my mother’s origins
casting aspersions on my mother’s sexual discretion
implying that my sexual preference not the cultural norm (and thereby implying that such a preference would make me less of a person)
racial slurs (which didn’t make much sense because I’m total whitebread)
and that I had a hockey stick shoved someplace uncomfortable (apparently he has never seen a hockey stick and is unaware as to how large they are, because one simply wouldn’t fit “there.”
lots of other general insulting and ribbing, but that’s expected and I can even get into a bit of good-natured banter.

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Eh, maybe in your section

but I was over behind the Avs net, where its mostly season ticket holders. Any time somebody tried to start a Wings chant from our end we would bury it with an Avs chant. Either that or somebody would the the “Red WIngs Suck” thing going.

40% might be a little high, I’d say at most it was 6,500. But it was pretty bad, always is for Wings games. I noticed the highest concentrations behind the penalty boxes, behind the Wings bench (which is expected), and up in the 300 level where its easy to get last minute tickets. Attendance was 18,007, which is a sellout.

We’re always bitter when we lose to the Wings. If anybody expects anything better, they don’t know us. But at least we don’t start riots….*cough*habs*cough*

MHH: Mr. Howard, Doctor Jones will see you now.

by JackAvsFan on Dec 28, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I was up in Section 306, so actually pretty close to the Avs net, just up (very) high. This gave me a pretty good view of the sea of red on the entire penalty box side. The can was not full to capacity last night – at least 20 empty seats in my section alone, so I could agreee that ~6,500 Wings fans is accurate, because that is 40% of 16,250.
Also, last minute seats were available pretty much anywhere (even 3rd row center ice for $330 each). I was looking for seats during the day yesterday (wasn’t sure if I could make the game until yesterday morning, so that was as early as I could buy them) and I saw a lot of seats available down low, I just wasn’t gonna pay $135 a seat + handling fees.

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Well the reported gate attendance was 18,007. Although that might just be ticket sales, I don’t know if the thing I read was correct. Anyway, reported sellout. And those low seats usually go around game time, or the staff upgrades some people from other sections to make it look good on TV.

MHH: Mr. Howard, Doctor Jones will see you now.

by JackAvsFan on Dec 28, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

ahh feels nice to wake up in the morning after a W

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 28, 2010 9:58 AM CST reply actions  

I didnt

get a chance to turn on the game last night, but from what I hear we played like garbage at still pulled out the W. Glad to see ozzie get his 400th sounds like a it was a amazing performance. Did we really play that bad? Or was it back and forth?

by bond021 on Dec 28, 2010 10:05 AM CST reply actions  

There were long stretches of in-zone darkness

I didn’t count them or anything, but it felt like there were at least 6 or 7 times that, even-strength, the Avs pulled a 30-45 second shift in the Wings’ zone.

Remember that 51-save performance that Quick dropped on us? After giving up the 2nd goal, Osgood played like that. They took a ton of shots from far out and odd angles, but they also got some very, very good scoring chances that Osgood either outright stopped or that went barely wide or that were stopped at the last second by a defenseman. Lidstrom himself stopped three odd-man rushes.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

The 2nd period

was something to behold. Truly a goalie in the zone (the puck sure was in the zone, like for the whole flippin period).

by Kendal on Dec 28, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

We need a good ol’ fashioned off day debate on Ozzy’s Hall chance, I think.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 28, 2010 10:55 AM CST reply actions  

He’s in – 400 wins is the magic number.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I dunno. I always figured 600 goals was a magic number too, but Ciccarelli sure took his merry old time getting in (he did get in, but took forever). And people don’t hold Ozzy in nearly the same esteem as they do Dino.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 28, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Dino's biggest problem

was his shenanigans on and off the ice. That was a big reason the “good ole boys” didn’t want him in the HOF, so a few of those guys had to get off the HOF board before he could get in.

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I don’t think he’s a first-ballot kind of guy, but he should get in eventually.

If he doesn’t, I don’t think I’d be too broken up about it, really though.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

He may eventually, but I doubt it’s any time soon. Not with so many big names from the 90s about to be eligible (or going to be before he’s ready). There’s a good 10-15 first ballot hall of famers not yet eligible that I can rattle off the top of my head (including three goalies: Belfour, Brodeur, and Hasek. Possibly Cujo as well).

That being said… how about a more personal debate: should #30 hang next to #5 and #19?

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 28, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

how about a more personal debate: should #30 hang next to #5 and #19?

As in at the rafters at the Joe?

Hell no. The Wings’ rafters are for championship banners and for the numbers of legends. Osgood has done great things with us, but he’s not a Red Wings legend.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

We have different views on the rafters. I think they are not for legends, but for the most important players in franchise history. I’d definitely say Osgood fits in that group.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 28, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

That being said… how about a more personal debate: should #30 hang next to #5 and #19?

That’s an interesting one. I can see both sides here. But I will admit I may have some bias here: Ozzie has long been a fixture for me, and takes me back to some of my fondest childhood/teen memories.

He has somethig like 316 wins with the Wings and 3 rings. But he also spent a couple years in the middle of his career playing for other teams, which really conts againt him here. However, this makes his career eerily similar to another goalie whose number hangs in the rafters: Mr. Sawchuck, who has only 47 more career wins that Ozzie. Ozzie has stolen playoff series for the Wings in the past and may yet match Sawchuck’s 4 cup rings. However, ozzie has never been called the “best goalie ever” or even “best goalie of his era” as Sawchuck was. Also, how many numbers can the organixzation retire before the run out of those they can circulate?

I would not object to the organization going either way on this one. It pains me immensely to type these words, but: If it were up to me, then No, his jersey isn’t hung in the rafters. Maybe I take his number is taken out of circulation temporarily (10yrs or so?)

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

The Canadiens have 18 numbers retired (including Gretzky’s) with a few more being tossed out there as possibilities in the next few years. The Wings have… 6, I believe. Sawchuck, Lindsay, Delvecchio, Yzerman, Howe, and Abel. Lidstrom’s will be up there 6 months after he retires, no doubt. So that’s 8 including Gretzky and not including 6 and 16 (6 was retired but is just out of circulation now and I doubt 16 will ever be worn again, despite not being hung).

When it comes to importance to the organization… who is more important than Ozzy has been? Obviously the guys hanging already. Lidstrom. Maybe Mickey (who I would like to see get his number retired for all that he has given to the team both on and off the ice). Maybe Federov and Shanahan. Really, he’s probably top ten in terms of importance to the franchise (player wise).

Also, the Wings let him go to get one of the 5 best goalies to ever suit up, Hasek. He didn’t choose to leave and actually made comments while in New York and St. Louis that he was still wished he was in Detroit, so I don’t count that against him. Sawchuck also left the team but no one remembers that. Ozzy will only be remembered as a Wing.

I’d love to see his jersey up there and definitely think it belongs there. If the team thinks otherwise, would a separate banner with important contributors (guys like Draper and Holmstrom and Maltby and Cheveldale) be a possiblity? Toronto doesn’t retire numbers at all. They simply take a number out of circulation for 5 years (maybe 10, don’t remember) and add the player to their own mini hall of fame, that’s what brought the idea of a separate contributor banner to my mind.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 28, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Just like Holmstrom, Maltby, and Draper

I’d like to see Ozzie’s contributions recognized with something of a mini hall of fame, a concourse plaque, or even a sculpture.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

you make some damned good points, and I don’t know that I can really make a call here. Deep down, I really want to see it up there, and I have a hard time separating personal desires from facts here and trying not to over-compensate for my own bias. I guess it’s a good thing this isn’t my decision

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

HOF - yes, # retired - no

Truthfully, I don’t know what you do for the remainder of the “originals” – Ozzie, Draper, Maltby, Homer, McCarty, etc. (I’m sure I missed a couple, sorry). They were all part of the nucleus of the team for 4 Cups, and that’s not trivial, nor should it be forgotten, but retiring #s and rafter banners – I don’t think so.

I’m with JJ on this one – the rafters are for legends, those who have statues, and the like.

I like Ozzie, always have, he personified the “2nd toughest job in Detroit” mantra (I said that outloud the other day and my 15 yr old asked what the toughest job in Detroit was – of course – and laughed quite hard when I replied, QB for the Lions), and like Graham – I don’t think he’s ever gotten credit for or been given his “due” by the press, some of the fans, and others as well.

400 wins, 10th winningest goaltender of All Time = HHOF, yes. Retiring #30 forever and having a banner in the rafters at the Joe, I doubt it. It wouldn’t be the worst idea ever, but I don’t think it’s “the right thing” either (see – Colorado/Ray Bourque).

Smitty

by Kendal on Dec 28, 2010 2:23 PM CST reply actions  

hey now

it’s not even on par with seeing #77 hanging in the rafters at the can last night. There is “not the right thing” and then there is “fucking terrible idea.”

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 28, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Well....yeah

Yes, True. My bad – analogy not appropriate, and very classily – called out.

But – remember, all they have are a very few winners….ever. Two SBs (Elway), Two Stanleys (Sakic, Bourque), and one very flawed NCAA FB National Championship (5 downs at Missouri). And that’s for the whole state!

We are just a wee bit spoiled in Detroit. We debate about which banners to hang, they debate about actually making a banner.

Smitty

by Kendal on Dec 28, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

It wouldn’t be the worst idea ever, but I don’t think it’s "the right thing" either (see – Colorado/Ray Bourque).

I hope you’re using that as an example of worst idea ever.

Ozzie hardly falls into the category of Bourque/Colorado. I still count that as the second most disgraceful number retirement in league history.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 28, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

My ultimate take on number retirements is this

If there needs to be logical debate as to whether a guy currently deserves it, then the answer is no.

When you look at Lidstrom, there is no logical Wings fan out there who will tell you that he should not have his number retired when he leaves hockey.

That’s just how I feel about it. Like Kendal said above, it wouldn’t be a bad thing if they hung his jersey from the rafters; I just don’t think they should.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 28, 2010 3:01 PM CST reply actions  

Been reading all day

I refuse to make up my mind on whether Osgood is a HOFer because his career is not over yet – what if, for some strange reason, he takes over for Jimmy and leads the Wings to another Cup, winning the Conn Smythe in the process? If that happens, automatic HOF. My gut tells me he belongs in there, but won’t get in right away, kind of like Dino.

As for whether his number belongs in the rafters, I have to agree with the “legends” status: he’s been great for them, but getting your number retired is probably the biggest honour a team can bestow on a player, and given the number of superstars we’ve seen in Detroit the last 20 years, I find it hard to justify putting Osgood up there.

What I could see is the Wings going the “Maple Leafs” route – they don’t retire numbers, but they do honour “jerseys”. It’s a way for them to recognize a player’s impact on the team while subtly suggesting that their contributions were below that of the true superstars (like Yzerman, Lidstrom).

by Amerinadian on Dec 28, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

If he does as you suggested, and wins another cup and gets a Conn Smythe, would that be enough for his jersey to hang from the rafters in your opinion?

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 28, 2010 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure

I sat here for about a minute and had to really think about it, which tells me the answer is “no”. The problem for Osgood (and some would say the only reason he’s had any success) is that he played behind a couple of players who are considered to among the best of all time (Lidstrom and Yzerman, and even Fedorov was on his way), and those players overshadow what he did. I just don’t think that even with another Cup/Conn Smythe that would be enough to get the number retired.

by Amerinadian on Dec 29, 2010 7:39 AM CST up reply actions  

So even if he wins us another cup and gets an MVP from the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen (all playoff warriors who have already left their mark on Red Wing history) and Lidstrom who is having the best year of his career at age 40… you still don’t see it going up? I agree he’s not Howe or Yzerman. But there has been two great goalies in Red Wing history – Sawchuck and Ozzy. It appears that I’m alone in the sentiment, but I do think we should raise Ozzy’s jersey.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 29, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Leading the Wings to another cup puts his jersey in the rafters.

No doubt in my mind.

I am still waffling as to whether or not his jersey would hang if he retired tomorrow. And I don’t think you can totally discount his contributions because of the players in front of him. Sawchuck had The Production Line in front of him and was one piece of an overall dominant team, yet noone questions his jersey in the rafters. The more I think about it, Ozzie and his career are just so similar to Sawchuck’s, as I explained before. Including the fact that they are/were both total headcases.

by Red, White and a Mile high on Dec 29, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

All goalies are

I love Osgood, but Sawchuk was in a class of his own when he played (and I never got to see it). He won in Detroit and Toronto. He also held a mark that some considered “untouchable” for quite some time (the SO record). Sawchuk was one of the all-time greats, and Osgood is not.

by Amerinadian on Dec 29, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

And when you look at the most successful period in franchise history, our current 19 season playoff run, there are three names that were instrumental in nearly the entire thing: Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Osgood. There’s others, sure, but none of them impacted the game as much for the Wings as those three have.

When Ozzy left, we had a great season with Hasek, but that team was stacked beyond all belief. I mean… ten sure fire Hall of Famers, possibly another two or three. Half the freaking team. Beyond that one season, no goalie managed to backstop us greatness again. Legace, who many fans believed to be a future superstar in the making, fell flat on his face. A future hall of famer, Cujo, was run out of town. Hasek came back and we had to turn right back to Ozzy who, surprise, won us another Cup and would have won us yet another had we not collapsed (and he surely would have won the Conn Smythe if we had won in 2009).

Ozzy will always have the “greatest defense(man) ever in front of him” in his shadow. It’s not justified and neither is saying he isn’t a legend. Ozzy is a Red Wing legend. He’s roughly 40 wins behind Sawchuck as the all time Wings leader, a mark he likely won’t pass, but nonetheless he is second all time in Wings wins and 10th all time in wins period (and will likely be 8th before the season ends).

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 29, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

There is only one other goalie up there...

It’s not a no brainer decision – testimony to that is that fact that we’re all mixed about it and debating it, in our own minds or with others, but I can buy into the logic that says although the Wings have had some great goalies on their roster at times during their history – Glenn Hall, Cujo, Roger Crozier, and now Ozzie, there is still only one jersey in the rafters – Sawchuk.

Granted, Sawchuk was without equal, and now, due to both career longevity and superb training/conditioning his crazy records to be broken except that 23+% of his wins were shutouts – that will never be equaled or broken, but…has there been another goalie besides Sawchuk that has meant as much to the franchise as Ozzie?

Hell, I still remember the 92 loss to SJ when he cried after Game 7 (I think it was 92…). He was just a kid, and he’s come back from that and reinvented himself and reworked his style of goaltending – like what, about six different times?? That might have been the end of his career if he’d let it.

Bottom line is that I’m really ok either way – hang it, don’t hang it. I’ll DVR and watch it if you do, and I’ll DVR and watch when he goes into the Hall too.

I’ll say it again, we wouldn’t have the 2008 Cup without him, and he didn’t suck in 98 either (except of course on the long shots – 1 in each series). He was the starting goalie for 2 Cups, and he was a major part of the season as a goalie in 97 too. I’m not sure that makes him a “legend”, but he sure is one helluva teammate and one heck of a guy.

I’ll miss him when he retires too.

Kendal

by Kendal on Dec 29, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

It was 94

After they lost to the Sharks. But I remember him crying in his locker after the game because it was his giveaway that led to the GWG.

by Amerinadian on Dec 29, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah but...

which of those jerseys up there didn’t have other great players around them?

The bitch about it is, as a goalie, the standards are different, and with Sawchuk being there already – does every goalie need to be “in his league” to be up there with him?

I’ll play devils advocate for a minute on this. Ozzie didn’t do anything but win games for us – along with Playoff Series and some Stanley Cups, so what if he’s a product of the best damn system and coaching in hockey, isn’t the bottom line that he won?

by Kendal on Dec 29, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

CONGRATS OZZIE,

from a native Coloradan and a lifelong Avs fan. And, if I may comment on the story, YES, the Chi-town bandwagon arrived in Denver last May and will be here till it’s not, and YES, we (Avs loyalists) will BOO BERTUZZI as long as he laces them up. Dude should be in jail, not signing contracts (just my opinion which has nothing to do with Detroit).

Later motorheads, and good luck next matchup!!!

-Stone

none

by Stone Bradcroft on Dec 29, 2010 11:54 AM CST reply actions  

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