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Off-Day Open Thread: Let it All Out

The stink from last night lingers in the air as the Wings have to recover from a two-game losing streak in time to face the Nashville Predators on Wednesday, a team facing some problems of their own after giving up a 2-goal lead to the Atlanta Thrashers and losing in overtime.  The Preds sit in last place in the Central by points with 30 (they're tied with STL, but lose the tiebreaker).  They have a better points percentage than Chicago, but they're certainly struggling right now.

But, we don't all have to go with the Preds.  I hear that Sidney Crosby is helping the Penguins lay waste to everybody in their path, to the tune of ten straight victories.  He's got a league-leading 24 goals and an 8-point advantage for overall scoring leader over Stamkos.  Anybody got some insight into this?  I can see by their schedule that the last ten games has been kind of lollipop with Vancouver being the best team they've played, but ten games in a row over anybody is impressive.  My only question (and it's because I haven't watched a full Penguins game during this winning stretch) is whether Crosby really is doing it all by himself like it looks.  Any insight into the numbers would be welcome, because Detroit has guys we know can shut Crosby down when it counts.


Other than that, seems like the collective patience of Red Wings nation is wearing thin on Jiri Hudler, with even the more staunch supporters (myself included) coming at least far enough past the middle ground to say that his level of play is not inspiring any sort of confidence.  Don't get me wrong, Jiri Hudler did not cost the Red Wings the game against either the Sharks or the Kings, but Jiri Hudler hasn't even been in the player of the game running this entire season.  Considering Darren Helm has been there several times and considering Hudler's pay, we're all left to wonder what has to happen.  Sound off below - do we bench him for good until we can trade him for whatever bag of party favors we can get?  Do we sit him a couple games in a row and let him back out there to try, try again?  Do we need to import the guy a mail-order bride from Russia to do God-knows-what to in order to find his mojo?  Move Bertuzzi down a line so he can play with Franzen and Filpula?  How about more drastic?  Let's let him play with one of the Eurotwins; what do you think?  The Midget's running out of rope and the gallows are plenty tall enough for his ass.

It's an off-day open thread ladies and classymen; anything goes, unless of course it doesn't.

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Crosby

No idea what’s going on there, but I know that Malkin has missed the last 2 games, so Crosby is really the only true offensive threat they have, and he’s still scorching hot. I hate the guy with a fire that rivals only 1000 burning suns, but I’ve got to give him credit for this streak he’s on. Keep in mind that the Wings have NEVER won 10 in a row in their entire history.

Hudler: he can’t play with the Eurotwins because he’s not gritty enough to hang in front of the net like Homer or Cleary. I say bump Bert down to the third line with Abdelkader and Cleary, move Hudler up to the 2nd line with Flip and Franzen, and put Homer back on the Circus. Hudler needs skill guys to play with; but if he doesn’t start doing something soon, I say scrap this Miller-Eaves-Draper rotation and just sit Happy in the press box permanently until we can trade his ass.

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 10:12 AM CST reply actions  

I kind of agree with the Bert solution, but I hate the concept of taking away playing time from Bert (who I think has played well of late) to give to the worst forward we have right now because he absolutely has to have skilled guys with him to not suck.

As LeftWingLocked pointed out a few days ago, Cleary didn’t get skilled guys to play with to prove he didn’t suck. I know their games are different, but Hudler has to fit the system, the system doesn’t have to fit him.

Still, if he gets on, that’ll be huge for Detroit. Give him a couple days’ worth of chances and playing 15 minutes. Tell him he’s going to play at least 15 even if he gets injured or fucks up a play. If that doesn’t work, put him in a coffin and trade him to Toronto for Brett Lebda because right now I trust that shitstain to play forward better than Huds has so far.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

If that doesn’t work, put him in a coffin and trade him to Toronto for Brett Lebda because right now I trust that shitstain to play forward better than Huds has so far.

Let’s not get crazy now.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

hello

I’m new here.
And I like this idea

Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins

by Leafer87 on Dec 7, 2010 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

sorry

You won the Brett Lebda sweepstakes, you are stuck with him.

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 7, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with the sentiment about Bert. And while I’m not entirely opposed to temporarily bumping Bert to spark Huds, I’m worried about Huds ability to sustain a high level of play without skill guys around him. Meaning, even if Huds “gets on” it will be difficult to put Bert back with Franzen and Filp. Hudler needs to learn how to produce as a third line player, and like you say, needs to fit the system. So theoretically second or first line duties may inspire Happy, but practically I don’t see how that really matters if he simply returns to third line duty once he’s been “activated.”

Unless we can find a way to make it work with Bert on the third line (and granted, he has shown he can play with Cleary and Abs). But the lineup still seems stronger with Bert on the second line.

by Brobz on Dec 7, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Hudler needs to start shooting!! He looks like he’s scared to shoot. He can’t miraculously start getting goals if he doesn’t pull the trigger. He is getting outworked by the opponents and I would say that almost everybody on the Wings roster is outplaying him and deserve more ice time than him.

I don’t recall who mentioned this a few weeks ago, but I do agree that Ericsson should be at the point instead of Hudler on the PP2 unit. Ericsson has a cannon of a shot and he’s getting more comfortable using that shot. If Hudler isn’t going to shoot from the point, then it’s pointless having him out there.

by Damenace on Dec 7, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Hudler Situation

Trade Hudler for draft picks. We need to start thinking about next season’s finances. Howard is gonna get a GIANT raise, Draper will retire, Modano will retire, and we need to bring up some younger forwards from GR (Mursak,Tatar, and that beast of a man Nestrasil) so that we can start a youth movement. With Hudlers giant salary of nothingness we should be able to re-sign Howie and replace the older players with the new crop and possibly have enough $$$$ for 1 or 2 free agent splashes.

by Red Wing Nut on Dec 7, 2010 10:18 AM CST reply actions  

I’ve been watching the pens games for quite a bit of the season (my roomate is a Pens fan and sweats Rosby hard) and really, I’m not worried in the least about the Wings having to play them. He has 20+ more points than the next Pen (Letang I think) which leads me to believe their game plan is to dish it to him and hope he scores. Because he is good (you can’t say he isn’t) he usually succeeds. Of course there are other players that occasionally score, but with the shutdown D that Z lays all over Rosby has me confident in the Wings ability to win. Especially if the Wings can get to Flower quickly.

Does anyone know the Wings record when Hudler is in? I’m genuinely curious. I’m not going to say he’s losing games, but maybe Eaves/Miller are winning games. IDK, it just kinda seems that way.

by TravellingWingsFan on Dec 7, 2010 10:19 AM CST reply actions  

Crosby has been killing it

let him do his biggest damage of the year now…we def can slow him down/shut him down if it does come to our 3rd round battle.

Hudler go back to Russia…you obviously miss the Russian hookers and can not play without them….as for our team even with the two straight losses we are in great shape and i see no reason why the playoffs shouldn’t go through the Joe….#12 lets get it.

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 7, 2010 10:27 AM CST reply actions  

we def can slow him down/shut him down if it does come to our 3rd round battle.

Why in the world would the Pens trade Crosby to the West?

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

my bad by 3rd round

i meant 3rd series in the finals lol

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 7, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

The dreaded rubber match.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

yup

ugh shouldn’t even be a rubber match should be 2-0 sigh

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 7, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

I, for one, do not want to discuss the Penguins

because they are not worth my time. Instead, I would like to partake in a classy debate of the merits of chocolate cake vs. “funfetti”. A strapping gent attempted to convince me that funfetti was the superior flavor but ho! I challenged the scallywag to a duel with pistols to rightly solve this conflict, but the ninny declined my offer like a dog with his tail betwixt his legs.

Then a charming Southern lass baked funfetti cupcakes for both of us and I instead turned my attention to showing her how classy of a gentleman I can be (if you get what I mean). She has declined my courtship thus far, but my perseverance shall prove to be successful soon enough.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 10:36 AM CST reply actions  

Here here!

Rec’d

Most assuredly this is done in jest, as no proper man of taste and class can approve of the flavor of the philistines when given the alternative of the ambrosia of the gods that chocolate is.

That’s some eloquent shit, that is.

by Brobz on Dec 7, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I was quite flabbergasted

that this individual, normally one I would consider to be a gentleman and a scholar, would besmirch his good name by uttering such a ghastly claim. In fact, I made a dash to the local apothecary to purchase some swabs of the finest cotton in the region to cleanse my ears in hopes that they had simply failed me at this critical juncture. Alas, it was not to be, and he truly believes that this abomination the commoners have named “funfetti” is superior to the noblest of gifts to our species that is chocolate.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Hi, everyone! I'm your voice of reason for the next five minutes.

Trading Jiri Hudler right now is right at the bottom of the “Good Ideas” list. It’ll be Ville Leino all over again: trading a player that isn’t clicking in the system and/or isn’t producing the way we ALL know he can.

The rest of the League notices things like that, too. How much return do you think that will net the Red Wings? Say… a fifth round draft pick and some Norwegian fuckstick that bailed on North America? No thank you.

I agree with the sentiment that Hudler isn’t playing where he should be. But this is going to fall into the Trade Him/Oh Shit You Traded Him?! Cycle:

1) TRADE HUDLER!
2) Team showcases Hudler, putting him on the top two lines (you know… where he needs to play to be effective).
3) Hudler begins being effective.
4) Team receives legitimate offer for Hudler.
5) Hudler is traded.
6) WHAT THE FUCK! HE WAS SCORING! WHY DIDN’T YOU TRADE HIM WHEN HE WASN’T WORTH JACK SHIT?!

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:02 AM CST reply actions  

Trading Jiri Hudler right now is right at the bottom of the "Good Ideas" list. It’ll be Ville Leino all over again: trading a player that isn’t clicking in the system and/or isn’t producing the way we ALL know he can.

Thank you.

Here’s my thing on it too. We’re not going to get value here and I’m absolutely terrified of what’s coming for the Wings when Lidstrom retires. As a result, We’d have to get a hell of a draft pick in return, because I don’t want to give up ANY depth this year knowing full well this may be our best chance in the next five to win the cup. I don’t think the window will fully close, but without Lidstrom, it will get harder. I simply don’t think value later is worth value now all things considered.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

Table the idea: for now. I’m at the point where if he can’t showcase something being on the second line for an extended period of time, then it may be a case that he just doesn’t fit the system and needs to go. I hate for the Wings to be on the hook for almost $3M for a guy that is not doing the one thing we need him to do: chipping in 15-20 goals and 30-50 points. We’re not expecting him to win the freaking Art Ross: but some semblance of offense, even just some quality scoring chances, need to start happening.

Here’s my thing: if we go another 5-10 games and he’s still stuck on the one goal, and we’re sitting here saying the same things that we’re discussing right now, then what do we do? I think we can put Miller and Eaves in the lineup on a consistent basis and they will do at least what Hudler is, while giving the team some jump (Eaves, especially).

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

It's a no-win situation if he can't begin producing.

Either he is traded for a return that you know is not what it should be… or he’s sitting on his giant salary in the Leino Lounge.

Like Ville Leino, he’s just not meeting expectations in Detroit. That doesn’t mean he can’t get it done elsewhere. I, for one, wasn’t upset when Leino began scoring in Philadelphia. It WASN’T going to happen in Detroit, no matter what… why cry over spilled milk?

Either he didn’t fit the system, or he didn’t get along with Mike Babcock, or he never found his niche, or he just clicked in Philadelphia — it wasn’t happening in Detroit, and it was over, so fuck it.

I know for a fact Jiri Hudler can score on this team. He just isn’t yet. If he doesn’t start, either he needs to be shaken up — by being put on a scoring line… or being benched. If I knew that answer, I wouldn’t be in this chat, I’d be behind a bench.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Give it the old Bowman solution

Make Hudler play a few games as a D-man.

Jonathan Ericsson can take his place as a forward.

I am not a coach because I’m stupid.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Right

Are you of the mind that the team should do whatever it can to get him to produce, and then trade him when his perceived value is inflated? Or do you think he can sustain production if/when he gets going?

Even when Hudler has been scoring in the past I’ve still never felt like he fits the system all that well. I think I’m in the minority, but I felt in past seasons that Hudler was a defensive liability, and have always seen him as weak on the puck. Thus, I like the idea of attempting to trade him if we can get him going. I’d love to see him become a consistent scoring threat, as I do like the guy, but I’m not confident that will happen.

by Brobz on Dec 7, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Fair criticisms.

I disagree that he’s weak on the puck. I think he’s incredible STRONG on the puck for a man that’s 5-6 and 175 soaking wet. But, all things are not equal, and you’re right – he can be bounced off of the puck for the exact same reasons I was.

To answer your question, I’m of the mind that he can produce on this team because he’s done it. 15 goals, 20 goals — not difficult for a man with his ability to snipe. He’s one whole hell of a hockey player when he’s playing well. He just isn’t right now, and it’s certainly plausible that he’s fallen out of the system that the Red Wings play, but he’s a pro — who came up through the Wings organization — it shouldn’t be difficult to get him clicking again.

It’s tricky. Speaking from experience, system playing isn’t for everyone. And it’s easy to point fingers and say “SYSTEM!” but he’s done it before. So I don’t think that’s it. His defense isn’t Selke-worthy, but it’s not NEARLY as bad as anyone else in his role (7th-ish forward) on any of the other 29 clubs. That’s a promise.

I sincerely it has something to do with the role he’s given. Playing on a third line, or on the point of the second power play unit, is defense-first. Jiri Hudler isn’t a defense-first kind of guy. And he doesn’t have to be. Everyone’s different. Some guys (Valtteri Filppula, Kris Draper, Darren Helm) do extremely well focusing on keeping pucks out of their own net, while occasionally chipping one or two into the other. Jiri Hudler is not one of those guys — he’s shoot first, ask questions second, get a cupcake third, and play defense fourth. But he’s good enough at the first two (okay…three) that the fourth can suffer a BIT, so long as he’s effective at the other end.

Right now, he’s not effective because he’s not in a situation to play that way. Should he suck it up, adapt, and learn to play better defense? A) That won’t solve his goal-scoring dilemma, which is everyone’s main beef with him and B) You can’t shove a square peg into a round hole.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Everyone’s different. Some guys (Valtteri Filppula, Kris Draper, Darren Helm) do extremely well focusing on keeping pucks out of their own net

Excuse me, but I think everybody who’s anybody knows that Valtteri Filppula is not a defensive forward. #esoteric.

Correct me if I’m wrong, since I’ve never had to adjust to a hockey system (although I do have soccer experience doing so), but if the Red Wings’ system were so easy to pick back up after a year in Russia with a completely different system, then why are there only a handful of teams that can play Detroit’s system?

Personally, I still don’t think it’s Hudler’s lack of effort, I think he desperately does want to fit back in with the system, he just doesn’t always remember how to do it. It’s like with Ericsson last year, he wanted to make the right play, it just took him a half second to figure out what the right play was and, by then, it was too late.

In this latest stretch, he’s actually played some decent defense and he’s set up a few passes that if Franzen and Cleary bury those chances, maybe we’re talking about how Hudler’s returned.

I think I just talked myself out of wanting to lynch him.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

To be clear...

Picking up Detroit’s system in a year is not easy, and you’re right — that’s why more teams don’t play it.

That said, it’s not like he played in it for one year, left for one year, and came back confused. He was a drafted Red Wing, and we all know they mold those players from the day they’re picked. He spent three years in Grand Rapids playing that system, another three in Detroit playing it, and it hasn’t changed all that much in his twelve months overseas.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he’ll be able to slot back into what SHOULD be comfortable for him, given his history within it.

Long story short — he should have a much easier time dropping into it than Mike Modano.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Also

This is the second time in a week I’ve had to look up the word “esoteric” to make sure it meant what I thought it meant. Just doesn’t stick for some reason HA

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

It’s just such a much classier way to say it than by typing out “bitchy and secretive”

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

I do the same thing with “superfluous”. He’s our own walking dictionary.

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Lexicrography is classy shit, yo.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Classy

I have to keep a separate tab open with dictionary.com open just to have a conversation with you.

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll save you some time

Just print this out and have it handy when you’re dealing with them. That’s the only word they know, apparently.

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I used to think it meant something to do with dinosaurs. Imagine my surprise when I learned the true meaning.

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I believe the word you’re looking for Mesozoic.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

At least for me

the impatience with Hudler reached its nadir last night (which seems to be a common feeling). Perhaps the egregiousness that was that game needs to be eschewed in order for a more rational analysis of “the Hudler situation.” Ya’ll have given me an exigent injection of patience. Besides, my impatience doesn’t mean shit for what will actually happen on the ice.

by Brobz on Dec 7, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

CLASSY VOCAB 401

Nadir.

Egregiousness.

Eschewed.

Exigent.

Doesn’t mean shit.

WINNER.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

those aren't that strange to me :)

Typical SAT vocab words. #ugh

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 7, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions  

What?

You took the SAT or ACT, didn’t you? I took them both just because I didn’t know which one I would need to get accepted to college and I figured I wanted to be prepared.

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 8, 2010 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Haha I was joking about a bad score

I took the ACT but I don’t remember anything from the test itself. I do remember words like those being all over the GRE though.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

We did not bring Hudler back to compete with Zetterberg and Datsyuk for the Selke. He’s on the team to chip in 15-20 goals as a depth scorer. The issue I have with him lately is that he’s not generating any quality scoring chances. If he were getting all sorts of great chances to score and just not putting the puck in the net, that’s fine; it’s a slump. But last night’s “behind-the-back” pass was an example of him being too cute with it. He needs to start firing pucks at the net at every opportunity and doing whatever he can to create offense. However, he’s not skilled enough to do it himself; hence why inclusion on a second line is better for him.

I’ll be the first to admit that all the line-juggling hasn’t helped him, but other players have had different linemates and still contributed (Cleary, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom to a degree). At the end of the day the common link between all of Hudler’s failed lines is Hudler.

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Did Russia mess him up that bad?

Maybe we need to bring back Mikael Samuelsson to play with Hudler, since they had some decent chemistry together.

The question for the Wings (not us) is how long they keep trying to “get him going”. There will have to come a time where the management/coaching staff gets together and says “it’s just not going to happen, and we need to evaluate what to do with him”. I’m of the mind that this will happen sometime in mid-January, and that if he’s not producing by then, even a little, then he’ll be taking his hooker-seeking skills elsewhere.

by Amerinadian on Dec 7, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Russia's to blame... KINDA

I’m sure he’s frustrated because it came so easy over there. But that’s because it’s a second-tier (at BEST) league.

When I played for my university, I got to play in this benefit — raising funds for my local high school rink. All of the area’s best high school players and a handful of us “alumni” were invited to this drop-in for charity. These are kids there were light years ahead of where I was at their age. But I had the added benefit of playing a superior brand of hockey by this point… and I absolutely fucking schooled these high schoolers. Like… it wasn’t even fair. Also, my role in college was to be Kirk Maltby — skate fast, run my mouth, goad people into doing something stupid. I scored a grand total of zero goals. But, the fact is, I had the ability — when compared to players at a lower level than my skills allowed.

That’s probably what Jiri Hudler was going through last year.

But he’s back. And he’s capable of scoring here. We’ve all seen it in the past. All he’ll need is a two-game point-producing streak and he’ll remember what it takes to score here. Hockey players aren’t complex beasts — sometimes we just need to be reminded what is expected of us in a situation. I may never have scored in college, because I wasn’t expected to. If allowed to take breakaways without eating the clock, and take a shot or two (like in a high school drop-in charity event), I scored at will.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

ice size

Think he might still be readjusting to the smaller ice? I know he played on it for a long time, but maybe he’s not an adaptable creature.

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 7, 2010 11:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Trading Jiri Hudler right now is right at the bottom of the "Good Ideas" list.

But it’s on the list.

And not on the “Bad Ideas” list.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Okay, let me re-phrase.

Trading Hudler right now is a BAD idea.

With his salary, and his current production. There’s NO WAY that ends well for the Red Wings.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Not to mention that a trade involves another team. And no team is going to want to give up much for a guy who is making 3 mil and hardly producing.

Especially not with Milbury in a broadcast booth rather than a front office.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

ZING!

True, though. It would be the kind of situation that would require the WINGS throw in something extra for a team to take on that salary.

The real world isn’t Xbox. You don’t make trades based on a fucking number made up one time. Jiri Hudler isn’t worth “86” to anyone else right now. Don’t expect “86” in return.

Also — I don’t know what his rating is because video games aren’t my thing. But the point remains the same: there’s no magic number associated with actual, real-life human beings. Except credit score. And GMs don’t care about that.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

The real world isn’t Xbox. You don’t make trades based on a fucking number made up one time.

For further study on this topic, please look up the ownership of the Tampa Bay Lightning by Oren Kroules and Len Barrie.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

But they could never get the damn thing to work.

Oren kept taking his power brick and going home.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Oren was definitely planning

to Jigsaw Barry? That ownership mess was tragic to watch…

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Oren Kroules is an Exec Producer on Two and a Half Men

now his tenure in Tampa Bay makes perfect sense

Blatant Twitter Promotion, rarely updated, occasionally funny

by rock n rye on Dec 7, 2010 5:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Even if he doesn't produce at and the trade moves up the list...

It would be hard to move a guy with nothing going who is making 2.8ish million dollars.

by Brion on Dec 7, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

i'm not happy with the way happy has been playing

but i think trading him is too drastic a solution. obviously something is up because his sloppy play and general ineffectiveness weren’t this evident in his past with the wings. did russia really mess with him this badly?

I Like Pie

by mrsunshine on Dec 7, 2010 11:26 AM CST reply actions  

Totally off-topic of the off-topic we're on

But I’m looking at my secret adjustment chart for CSSI (where I’ve given people more than one point on a goal when it’s been applicable; for example: Datsyuk has six secret assist adjustments through either extra work on other people’s goals where he had already been given one assist or by extra work on his own goals where giving him an assist would also make sense), and I think I’m going to be announcing a complete change to the way I’m doing CSSI.

Put simply, I like the new system more. The points differences are a little inflated and it creates more room between the top and bottom of the scoresheet, but what I like the most so far is that I’m looking at the new adjusted plus/minus rankings and they look like they fall exactly in line with how I feel the guys’ have played so far this season.

I hope to have a post up later this week explaining the changes.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:39 AM CST reply actions  

good

Then I won’t bother to read the original explanatory post yet until you get the changes up. Perhaps I will be less confused.

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 7, 2010 11:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I love how I got so much crap for saying we might be wise to get what we could for Hudler a month ago and now we are considering playing our best player, Cleary, and one of our most consistent players, Bertuzzi, less time so that Hudler can play with players so good that he can do us no real harm. If he can’t get the job done, bench him like you would any other third or fourth liner. He is, honestly, the only player playing poorly on the entire team. Why should we play good players less to play a bad player more?

(Don’t get upset with that comment, it is somewhat sarcastic/ironic)

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 7, 2010 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

Why should we play good players less to play a bad player more?

Because you do what you have to do, temporarily, to get the WHOLE team going.

That said, you don’t futz with chemistry to SHOVE a non-working part into the machine. But if a player isn’t producing from the third line, there comes a time when it must be realized that he is not, in fact, a third line kind of player.

by Michael Petrella on Dec 7, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

IMO

Bench Hudler for atleast 4-5 games. We have plenty of contributing forwards. That must give him the necessary impetus he needs…I have hope but its definitely fading like a flickering flame in a cold December zephyr….

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem I have with this, is that it does nothing to solve the problem.

Players don’t break out of funks by sitting in the press box, they do it by playing the game.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with this

and I think that 4-5 games may be a bit severe, but with the way Hudler has played tentatively and has not been positionally sound, I would think that a 2-game stint in the press box might give him the opportunity to observe and internalize where he should be and which decisions he should be making.

I feel he’s not seeing the whole ice very well, so let him do that from the press box to get his bearings again.

Bring him back for the New Jersey game. They should still be terrible by then.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Understood...

But sometimes the press box has the best view for players to observe the game.! Maybe, his perspective on the game might change. The bird’s eye view on the game from Press box might help…

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

But only a game or 2 works as a message sender/get your head on straight period.

Anything longer than that (especially if it starts as an open ended sit in the press box) can screw him up even worse. Remember, this is a guy we want to get going offensively, not punish like a whipping boy because the TEAM lost 1 game.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably

When I said 4-5 I was intending multiple games. We had benched him for one earlier…

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

To be fair, I was calling for him to be benched a month ago after pretty much every game regardless of the outcome…

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 7, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

At the moment

I sincerely hope he proves every single opinion on this page WRONG! Maybe he will come out all guns blazing (after the benching) and starts pulling in, a point every game, heck, has scores a goal every other game or every two games..launch a personal blitzkrieg on you. me and every other naysayer here…!!!!….Really wish that utopia would set in!!

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Right

I think I’m becoming persuaded that we just have to grit our teeth for now. It’s not like we’re losing because Hudler is playing. We’re off to a great start without much contribution from Huds.

by Brobz on Dec 7, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Is it just me...

Or have the refs really toned back on disallowing redwing goals this year?
It got to a point last year where it was like there was going to be a prize for the most creative way to wave off a goal.

by WingFanNorth on Dec 7, 2010 11:55 AM CST reply actions  

I’m still shocked that they allowed the Cleary goal in the first game of the season against the Ducks.

But, it was either Marc Antony or Krusty the Klown who said “The evil men do lives on after them, the good is oft interred with their bones.”

It’s so much easier to remember the screw jobs, and last night’s no-goal was a screw job. Just another bullet for my campaign against black jerseys, pants, and gloves.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe they just shouldn’t wear pants. Niemi’s pasty thighs would have solved all our problems.

by Brobz on Dec 7, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I would not harp on that disallowed goal

What has happened has happened. Our play faltered badly in second and third…

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Sit Happy for maybe a game or two...

 Stick him with Modano and have him maybe see how sucky it is not to even be able to play because of a freak accident and hopefully he will come running back to the ice not wanting to be stuck with sad Mike again.

I think he just needs to relax a little, stop trying to hard, but also get a little fire under his ass and maybe another benching will help with that.

by NatiTalia on Dec 7, 2010 12:13 PM CST reply actions  

Updated All-Star totals

Datsyuk and Rafalski sit at 10th. Zetterberg and Franzen are 15th and 16th.

Jimmy Howard is 6th.

Lidstrom is 4th. Behind Letang, Pronger, and Keith.

Am I the only one excited that we might not have anyone in the All-Star Game?

by AriTwice on Dec 7, 2010 12:51 PM CST reply actions  

I'm with you

No reason to have anyone hurt for a stupid exhibition that nobody watches.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

The voting is only to pick 6 starters. The league (I assume GMs) will pick players to fill out the rest of the rosters. Then the players will vote 4 captains (2 on each side) who will the pick teams.

So just because we don’t have anyone up there in voting doesn’t mean we won’t have players in the all-star game.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 7, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm thinking every Red Wing on the ballot

Will come down with flu symptoms and miss the game before the All-Star game.

Cause… you know… that shit is contagious.

by AriTwice on Dec 7, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

And then Bettman will suspend them

for having a completely reasonable excuse not to be there.

by tehGOALIE on Dec 7, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

and then they will spit in his coffee

And he will come down with the Martian Death Flu and have to be relieved of his commish duties.

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 7, 2010 11:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually, after the fans vote in the 6 starters

The Hockey Operations Department picks the remaining 36 players for the roster. Then those 42 players vote and select 2 captains. The 2 captains then go on to draft their teams.

by AriTwice on Dec 7, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I cannot believe

Letang is ahead of Lidstrom. Its Apocalypse, I say

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Let me rephrase

I cannot believe those three Jamoches are ahead of St.Nick. A smorgasbord of Crap, this voting system is…

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

when you haven't registered a point in a month*

people tend to forget you’re still the best damn d-man on the planet

*ok, it was only 5 or 6 games, but it sure felt like a month, didn’t it?

I'm expecting 100% improvement from the Lions this season.

by ahtrap on Dec 7, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

NO

I want NONE of them at the game. I want them all resting and recovering if they are injured, relaxing with family and friends if healthy.

NO STUPID EXHIBITIONS.

Only bad things can come out of that. Bad things, I tell you. #foreboding

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 7, 2010 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

My take on Hudler

I’m sure it’s been discussed aplenty in the comments above, but I still wanted to get this out there. In short, Hudler’s skating on thin ice. I won’t completely give up on the guy, but you have to show something, some sign of improvement. And I have seen none. He wants to make the perfect play every time, and that just doesn’t work very often in the NHL…maybe he could get away with it in the KHL, but with limited space in the NHL that cute stuff doesn’t fly. He needs to get back to the simple things…drive the net, shoot the puck, work hard. None of those things he’s doing very well…he looks lost out there. Like I said, it’s not time to give up on him yet, but damn he’s got to be a whole lot better than this.

But I wanted to mention about Hudler before he left for the KHL. Anyone remember the 2009 playoffs? Hudler was a ghost. Absolutely ineffective. So the way he’s playing wasn’t necessarily because of the KHL, but were haits he developed before he ever left here. Now, I thought he just had a time of struggle in the playoffs and would be better…but I’m starting to wonder if it was more of a beginning of a trend in how he plays than anything else.

by tehGOALIE on Dec 7, 2010 2:19 PM CST reply actions  

"haits" = "habits"

Sorry for my misspelling…it’s a tough sentence to read if you don’t know what word I went for there!

by tehGOALIE on Dec 7, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel

bad because to be completely honest with you, last night was my breaking point with huds. Even the one goal he did have this year was a fluke broken break away goal. He is easily knocked off the puck, never wins any big races to puck. I think there is no doubt he needs to sit for a long while.

by bond021 on Dec 7, 2010 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't necessarily say he should sit that long

But definitely somewhere between 2-4 games would do him good, and not just because his performance has been bad but because maybe he needs to watch the game from afar and truly study film of his own tendencies to see what he really needs to correct. All things more easily done when he doesn’t have a game to worry about playing in.

It was my breaking point too, but I’m not willing to completely give up on him just yet.

by tehGOALIE on Dec 7, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

On Mo....

For those that haven’t seen it, here’s a nice article from Nicholas J. Cotsonika on Modano….got me to wondering if you guys couldn’t do a special blog kept near the top where we could post stuff to help him keep his spirits up? Maybe reading some spirit-raising words from Wings fans with his morning coffee…or whenever, cuz surely he read WIM regularly…would help when he’s staring at that big black cast and wondering WTF!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;ylt=AuJe.nBVPcUwMaay5Nisc57vLYF?slug=nc-modanoinjury120610

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 7, 2010 2:59 PM CST reply actions  

I do feel terrible for him

But he’s truly on the best team in the league to help support him and get him through it mentally. Her’e hoping he makes a full recovery and soon.

by tehGOALIE on Dec 7, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I would like to say Go Panthers…Go Tampa…Go Oliers…would be a nice off night to see the Avs, Flames and Ducks all lose mwhahahahahah

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 7, 2010 6:57 PM CST reply actions  

Since you asked.
…is whether Crosby really is doing it all by himself like it looks.

Absolutely not, the Pens defense has been very good. I do believe they lead all teams in combined scoring from the backend.

…because Detroit has guys we know can shut Crosby down when it counts.

Well in one series, and that didn’t work out well for the Wings anyway. ;) jk

by Lindas1st on Dec 7, 2010 7:28 PM CST reply actions  

whoa

either you’re stalking me or I’m stalking you o.O

Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins

by Leafer87 on Dec 7, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Whoa is right, but I think it’s you that’s doinn’ the cyber stalkin’ Kiddo. ;)
I always read JJ’s stuff.

by Lindas1st on Dec 7, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah I noticed the link on the “Around SB Nation”. And it was on Sid so.. you know..
/not a stalker

Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins

by Leafer87 on Dec 7, 2010 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I know, only playin’ with ya’.

by Lindas1st on Dec 7, 2010 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

don’t worry, I know ;)

Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins

by Leafer87 on Dec 7, 2010 8:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah…I’m stalking both of you.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 1:10 AM CST up reply actions  

We're particularly interested in the Pens' late run

and judging by the stats, the defense has been stellar. They have only given up more than 2 goals one time during their streak, when they gave up 4 in a shootout win over Carolina on November 19. They are 3rd in the league in GAA (2.3) and 2nd in penalty kill % (88.8%). I’m interested to see if this trend continues when Malkin comes back, or if things open up more as Malkin’s line looks to play more offensively (assuming him and Rosby are on different lines, that is).

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Malkin’s only missed the last 2 games. It’s not like he’s been out for 15.

by Lindas1st on Dec 7, 2010 7:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Shows you how much I watch the Pens

Still, I’m interested to see if they are this good defensively or if this is just a great stretch for them.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

They are this good...

Martin and Michalek (both newly acquired) are still learning the system, but they’ve both really improved. I think the coaches struggled to put together good D pairings in the beginning of the season, but now each pairing has been working well. The D has been able to hold down the fort in tight games as of late; I don’t think that’s something that’s just a great stretch because I can see the improvement the D corps as a whole have made from game 1 to game 29.

As for Sid: at the start of his 16 game point streak, he would either will his team to win or lead his team on a comeback. At the beginning of the 10 game win streak for the Pens, it was pretty much a team effort, but Sid was definitely contributing. In the past 3 out of 5 games, though, he’s basically have been the sole reason the team has won. In two of those games, he had hat tricks. One of which he scores 3 out of the 4 goals for the Pens; and, in the other, he scored all three. In this past game against the Devils, he had an incredible assist and scored the game winning goal in a 2-1 win. In summary, it’s a mixture, Sid’s either been doing it all himself but he’s at least been a factor.
By the way, it’s time to stop calling Sid “Rosby.” Frankly, it makes you sound like one of those irrational haters, and, from what I can tell, you’re far from that.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 1:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Better than...

Hey, it’s better than Cindy or Crysby isn’t it? Those are most common…and not just from Wings fans either.

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 8, 2010 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey, it’s better than Cindy or Crysby isn’t it?

They’re about all equally terrible. A guy doesn’t place second in King Clancy voting or win the Cup because he’s a bad captain (obligatory Sid didn’t shake Lidstom’s hand comment).

and not just from Wings fans either.

Yeah, they’re also common from the blubbering idiots who literally think Crosby’s a terrible player.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Sid didn’t shake Lidstom’s hand comment

I see what you did there, but I don’t get it. Are you saying Lidstrom doesn’t deserve the R?

I keed.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

No worship here...

And, yet here you are calling people names….

Crosby (OMG so hard to resist nickname) isn’t terrible, he’s just not as good as you seem to think he is….comparing him to 99? Me think it’s them looking through blinders or rose-colored glasses that have problems. He could fall down, go boom-boom and career be over…just saying.

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 8, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think it's that irrational for me to dislike him

Between two SC final series and the little stunt he pulled on Zetterberg during the regular season last year, there’s more to it than being an “irrational hater.” I recognize that he’s an exceptional offensive talent and that the rest of his game is also improving every single year.

There’s two big reasons why I (and most Wings fans) don’t like him. I already hinted at the first above with his scuffle with Zetterberg and Howard last year. He’s done this multiple times, and I’m sure you can understand why someone wouldn’t like a player that takes shots like that at one of your favorite players. He’s viewed as a whiner, and while some of that may be warranted, it still is not a redeeming quality for him.

The second really isn’t his fault, but we hate the way he was anointed as the “savior of the league” before he even played in an NHL game. The NHL has a glut of young stars that they can market, but it’s Crosby this and Crosby that, with a little Ovechkin thrown in to spice things up every once in a while. The league is so short-sighted that they haven’t even built upon Chicago’s success by marketing guys like Toews and Kane. This is especially perplexing, seeing that Chicago is a top-5 TV/media market in the country.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Do not forget his slewfoot on Callahan

Yes..I know his ardent devotees will swear by it..but everyone who has eyes and a sense of logic can perceive the veracity of it! His greatness can only be matched by his subtle lack of respect for his fellow NHLers..

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 8, 2010 10:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I didn't want to start recounting all the incidents

but there are multiple. It goes without saying for most star players, but he’s not as good as Pens fans think he is, and he’s not as evil as the rest of us think he is.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

++

Truth in both your comments, Detroit4lyfe.

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 8, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I don’t think you’re qualified to make the assertion that “Crosby’s not as good as Pens fans think he is,” if you’re wondering if the Pens D is really as good as they seem because you don’t watch very many Pens games.
Just sayin’.
Watch 82 Pens games plus playoffs and then get back to me on Crosby.

You’re right, though, he’s definitely not as evil as you all think he is. He’s a classy kid, but he’s no angel on the ice (who is, really?).

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

You’re right, though, he’s definitely not as evil as you all think he is. He’s a classy kid, but he’s no angel on the ice (who is, really?)

This is what I was referring to when I said he’s “not as good as Pens fans think he is.” I wasn’t talking about his on-ice skills there.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

First of all, I didn’t call you an irrational hater. I compared you to one. I said that calling him “Rosby” makes you sound like one, which it does, and that I didn’t think you were one. You don’t have to like him, but don’t call him stupid names, because it makes you seem just that.

I already hinted at the first above with his scuffle with Zetterberg and Howard last year.

Wow…really? That’s one of the reasons?
You didn’t pay very close attention did you?
Watch where Zetterberg’s stick goes right off the faceoff. Yeah, in a pretty sensitive area. I don’t blame Sid for going off like he did; and it was at the end of a frustrating game to boot.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

At least he was facing him as he hit him (with incidental contact mind you)rather than speedbagging him from behind in a “fight”.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 8, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Some thoughts (past is past..but you probably just started a verbal joust ;-))

(a) I certainly perceive whatever Z was doing was accident (besides players are well protected there and from that camera angle I can see nothing) and I do not think there was any malicious intent…accidents happen on Ice.
(b) What Crosby did was a blatant lack of respect for a fellow hockey player (not that I expect him to respect anyone..he is St.Crosby for cryin’ out loud).
© That game was frustrating, but players need to control their emotions and clearly Sid lost it there (maybe he needs some lessons in class and composure from Nicklas Lidstrom)…
(d) He is a great player, classy Kid, and down the road we expect 87 to be permanently retired league wide, but alas in our books (atleast some wings’ fans might echo my sentiments here) he lost his credibility needed to transition from an excellent hockey player to an enshrined one after that incident and the dreaded slewfoot!

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 8, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

87 to be permanently retired league wide

Dear God I hope not.

But I’m also on the belief that 99 should be un-retired league wide. No player is bigger than the game.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 8, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Was quasi-sarcasm

to mellow things…I do hope that does not happen

No player is bigger than the game.

Agree…At the moment the only ‘thing’ that needs to retire from NHL is Bettman’s brain…

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 8, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

This is all I'm going to say...
he lost his credibility needed to transition from an excellent hockey player to an enshrined one after that incident and the dreaded slewfoot!

If those two incidents are all that you need to determine that he’s lost all “credibility” with y’all’s fan base, considering all he’s accomplished in 5 short years, then that’s quite sad.
He’s, at the very least, one of two of the best players that the league has seen in decades and is on one of the most incredible runs individually that I’ve ever seen. You don’t have to like him, but at least enjoy him; you’ll regret not doing so.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Just to reiterate

I do not hate him, nor do I like him, nor do I care if he puts up numbers that would make rest of the NHL look like pee-wee league of Yukon and Northern Territories…

If those two incidents are all that you need to determine that he’s lost all "credibility" with y’all’s fan base, considering all he’s accomplished in 5 short years, then that’s quite sad.

If a single phrase of Sean Avery (******* seconds), and Brodeurgate, can make him an instant ‘pest’ of NHL (yes, I know he has more than those two, but those were the harbingers after which his brand label garnered more market value), then this can too. Its wonderful what Crosby has done to league in general and for the city of Pittsburgh in particular. No one is going to discount his achievements, each of which requires a separate blog comprising of several paeans. However, those two incidents were subtly malicious (with intent to injure) in nature and as a responsible captain and player what Crosby did was wrong..try to accept that fact,( sometimes defense has to do what it has to and prosecution will do what it needs to). At the end of the day IMO, Crosby is becoming bigger than the game itself (I am not blaming him for this – he is just doing his job…but due to NHL’s unequivocal focus on him all the time..)..and to me that is unacceptable. Watch the game for the team not for an individual.
, but at the end of the day if you think you are bigger than the game itself

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 8, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

It’s not his fault that the NHL shoves him down y’all’s throats.

Avery hasn’t won a Cup. Avery hasn’t scored the Golden Goal for his country. Avery hasn’t won an Art Ross. Avery hasn’t won a Rocket Richard. On and on…
Avery is known for his pest actions because that’s who he is—a pest—that’s it. Even if you think Crosby is a pest, like Avery, (which he’s not) he’s known for so much more good incidents than bad incidents (like the ones you’re listing).
Hopefully, Sid has a long way to go in his career. Once it’s all over, these two incidents will dwarf what he’s accomplished. That’s why it’s quite sad if those two ruin it for you.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Comparing Avery to Crosby

is an apples-to-oranges comparison. I know you didn’t start it, but you did a good job of illustrating why. Avery’s job is to piss people off. Crosby does more than that, but some fans can’t look past some of the things he’s done to see the positive things he’s done.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

but some fans can’t look past some of the things he’s done to see the positive things he’s done.

And, as I said before, that’s quite sad. He’s a sure HOFer who is already tremendously accomplished. If he stays healthy, he’ll accomplish much, much more.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

If he stays healthy, he’ll accomplish much, much more.

No doubt he will. We just hope there are no more Cups at our expense. That last one was tough to stomach.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I know how you feel.
Knowing that you guys were the only ones to raise the Cup at Old Lady Mellon is still a tough one, and probably will be until we win one at Consol.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Avery...

How’d he get into this conversation?

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 8, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I was not comparing. At that time..I could only come up

With that nicknack’s example. The bigger picture was the lack of reform in NHL’s rulebook. Its like there is a rulebook for NHL players and a rulebook for Crosby. Had Datsyuk (he would never do this…but..) or Kronwall (not so sure..but I don’t he would stoop down to those lows) done what Crosby had done (in the recent past) I am sure they would have been vilified by everyone (barring some of us of course) and the NHL would most certainly have fined them (assuming no suspension). A great player he might be, but if NHL starts giving him this much room and makes him the prodigal son (they most certainly have done that already) then he could probably get away with, say……rape (cough*Roethlisberger*Cough)…..or even murder…!!! I know it will not go to that extent…but just sayin’

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 8, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

A couple of things

While it certainly wasn’t Crosby who went to the NHL’s marketing department and asked to have his face plastered all over the game constantly, he’s not exactly a victim of this. I don’t blame him for any of the shit that’s gone down in that arena (including the personal call he received from Gary Bettman surrounding the all-star fiasco that got Datsyuk and Lidstrom suspended for a game). He did have to at some point choose to be allowed to be the face of the game.

Here’s the thing about the Avery/Crosby comparison and a way to actually tie it back to Wings fans. Avery is known as a pesky shitstain because everybody in the league sees him acting like a pesky shitstain. Most Wings fans who don’t watch Crosby regularly only see Crosby when he plays against Detroit. He could be a perfect gentleman in his six annual games against the Islanders, but many Wings fans only see what he does against Detroit (and what he does when the media grabs onto the things like the nut-punching incident or the slew-foot-that-really-wasn’t-a-slew-foot incident). From that perspective, Crosby has simply not been horribly impressive. The Wings tend to get to him and we’ve seen him lose his cool in a much higher percentage of games than you have.

Yeah, it’s an admittedly myopic way of looking at it and not one that I particularly subscribe to (I’ve seen fewere Pens games this season, but have watched them quite a bit over the previous couple of seasons), but it’s no different than the legions of Penguins fans who say that Kronwall leaves his feet “all the time”.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Again I reiterated that it was not his fault...

Crosby is no pest and I am not saying those two ruined it for me. Crosby has
 - Won the Stanley (at JLA…)
 - Became the Olympic Golden Boy at the expense of a much better US team..(just my opinion)
 - Won all the accolades that make every other NHL player jizz in their pants..
 
Any NHL player would love to have these in their resume at the twilight of their careers which crosby has done already (in 5 years…). Kudos to that!!

What I am implying here is with so much +ves..why must he do, even occasionally, what we perceive as ‘cardinal’ sins! With great Power come great responsibility (I just had to use that phrase) and I think Crosby is shying away from that sometimes with his acts, and frankly I think he just feels he can get away with murder(something that he must not). I was hoping that he would be punished for his profligacy, after certain incidents (you know maintaining justice on an even keel) but looks like NHL will not let its prized ‘asset’ take a walk on the dark side..too bad, too bad!

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 8, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

He’s, at the very least, one of two of the best players that the league has seen in decades

No, no, no, no NO!

If I’m going on at least a 20-year span for a player that played any time within that 20 years (the very bottom definition of “decades”), then Sidney Crosby is not one of the two best players of any 20-year span that started or ended within his five years.

This is the NHL’s marketing department talking because there is simply no way I can support a claim about any five-year veteran like you’ve just made.

Off the top of my head, Gretzky, Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, Roy, and Lidstrom have all been players within the last 20 years who Sidney Crosby has yet to live up to.

He’ll get there, but crown him at the end of the race, not the beginning. If his career ended tomorrow (and I’m not hoping it does), then Sidney Crosby is already a Hall-of-Famer, but he’s not one of the top two players to have laced up skates in the NHL for the last 20 years.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I came back to answer this comment.
Did I say decades? Shit, my bad.
I meant “a decade.” The 92-93 season comes to mind when I think of the past 20 years. The scoring race was unbelievable that year.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I could moderately agree with the concept that Sid has been top two among players in the last ten years, considering that the greats I mentioned earlier all had their best years prior to the turn of this century.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Shrine?

Allie, you need to get a life. I’m really scared that you have a shrine with burning candles and pictures of him all around. OMG you’re really kind of scary. Are you a stalker in the making?

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 8, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I came on here to answer the questions that were asked about Sid and the D that were asked in the post, wrote one sentence about calling Sid “Rosby” and all the sudden, “I have a shrine” for Sid. Wow.
I thought these type of shit comments only happened at A2Y?

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I happen to like A2Y, thank you.

I appreciate your insider’s take on the situation, as it was precisely what I was asking for.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

You have to admit, though, the commenters are pretty crazy.

Your welcome.

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I’m one of the commenters over there.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Then you’ve seen it first hand. A lot of those people are pretty crazy, huh?

My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside

by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 8, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Not trying to be threatening

but “crazy” probably isn’t the best word to describe what you’re probably thinking about the commenters there. The A2Y community is very close (I’m assuming you’ve heard about the Herm 2 Hockeytown event last season?) and asking a question worded that way may not resonate well with them, even if you don’t mean it to (which I’m sure you don’t).

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

A lot of those people are the smartest, most articulate and caring commenters I’ve come across anywhere on the internet.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

“He’s, at the very least, one of two of the best players that the league has seen in decades and is on one of the most incredible runs individually that I’ve ever seen.”

This is where it came from. Oh, and..
you get respect where, you give respect….so if my comments are shit I may as well enjoy myself…

Cindy Crysby, Cindy Crysby, Cindy Cysby…ahhhhh!!

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 8, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

How do you all get the nice block around parts of comments you want to quote?

by wingsluver4ever on Dec 8, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Highlight the text you want to block, then click the quote symbol above the comment box.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

You have to have the text you want to highlight in the comment box already, FYI.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

There's a big difference between me calling him Rosby here

and doing it on Pensblog (followed by a ban). I already gave him plenty of credit earlier for his talents, rapid improvement, etc.

As for the Zetterberg-Crosby incident (trying to be objective here), I never said Z was completely innocent. As one of my astute brethren already illustrated, Crosby did go at the back of Z’s head. Also, I wasn’t trying to single out that incident, as I pointed out when I said “I didn’t want to start recounting all the incidents” in another comment. My goal was to illustrate to you (and any other Crosby fans reading this) why Wings fans have an “irrational” dislike for him. I’m not trying to be incendiary whatsoever, so I apologize if I came off like that with my previous comments.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 8, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

well even the series you guys won

it wasn’t because of Crosby as much…he had 3 points in the 7 games

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 7, 2010 8:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that was the point he was trying to make

Rosby had 6 points (2 goals, 4 assists if I remember correctly) in the 6-game ’08 series.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah i read it wrong

realized after

LETS GO RED WINGS!

2011 will be the year....better be....

Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."

by TuLoRocks2008 on Dec 7, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Just wanted to make the comment 88

cannot stand 87…ANYWHERE

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 7:44 PM CST reply actions  

naaah..20 cent is comic relief

Does not attract as much attention as the nefarious 87…

I celebrate Festivus!!!

by bharatwaj5 on Dec 7, 2010 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The Wings were flat after the first

1st period I had no problem with the Wings played as they were just all over the Sharks. Moving with so much speed and puck movement the sharks didn’t know where to go. When the goal was called I was thinking quick whistle and what could have happened if the Wings had a larger lead going into the 2nd. Come 2nd they had no jump, got too cute, didn’t back/fore check well, and let the sharks double team back check which should have been countered with getting the puck deep with a winger flying up the opposite boards to spread the Sharks back out. Instead they were kept to the outside and trapped through the remaining 2 periods with fewer and fewer shots from the slot. Well maybe the Wings will bounce back and outright murder the score board next game. No worries still got plenty of season left.

by Idle Drifter on Dec 7, 2010 9:56 PM CST reply actions  

Since this is an open thread and I’m out of hockey talk for 11PM, how about some life advice? Long story short, best friend is engaged. It’s rocky but it looks like it’s getting better. I, being the Winged Wheel fan I am (being a Wings fan is relevant even when it is irrelevant), am in love with her and have been for years (we’ve been friends for seven years, had feelings for five+, she’s never been single long enough to say anything). What do I do? This is like Bettman’s love affair with Crosby and the refs calling off Wings goals left and right.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 7, 2010 10:07 PM CST reply actions  

Is she the best friend or is he?

If she’s the best friend and your feelings about him are lukewarm, then go for it.

If he’s the best friend, then you’ve had plenty of time to try to get this off the ground before now. That’s just not something you do to your best friend.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 7, 2010 10:35 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

While I agree...

if she is the best friend you have a 50/50 shot. Not that this is encouraging but my brother did the same thing, fell in love with his best friend but never said anything to her till she got in a serious relationship. When he finally told her that he loved her, she didn’t say anything and then just said “I never knew, sorry” and then completely walked out of my brother’s life. Took him a while to finally get over her, but eventually he found someone else and is very happy with his current girlfriend.

by NatiTalia on Dec 7, 2010 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

She is my best friend (I being the guy who is slightly confused by your comment). I know she’s had feelings in the past (heard via her friends and always had my suspicions) and we did have a very short, somewhat spontaneous fling when we were 17 (jeez… that was four years ago already) but no feelings were really ever thrown out there. Her engagement hit rocky water in September (been engaged since… Feb 2009, I believe) and they decided to live apart for a month or two and they’re starting to make headway from the sounds of it. While they were apart, she had what I would call an emotional affair (got very close emotionally, though no physicality. She opened up to me as if I was her fiance, not the other guy), though I know she would argue that description. I got the impression that feelings are still there on her part.

There is a good chance she’d end it for me. I’m just not sure it’s the right thing to do when she’s finally getting her engagement back together. I may have missed that window. It may be a self-confidence issue, but possibly making her ruin something that has been a huge part of her life and is looking optimistic again for something that may or may not work (and may or may not ruin a friendship) with her best friend is something I worry about.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 8, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification

I wasn’t sure if the fiance or the fiancee was the best friend.

I’d say that with what you’ve laid out here, not acting in September probably closed your window. Not to beat you up about it or anything because there’s not much that can be done now, but if her relationship with her fiance is improving to where they’ll make it, you’re probably doing her harm.

The archetypal story of the best friend true love who breaks up the wedding at the last minute so they can live happily ever after is a nice story, but unfortunatley, movies don’t ever follow beyond the emotional catharsis and warm embrace. If they made that movie, it would be filled with the couple trying to piece back a handful of relationships that may be left irreparably broken by what is essentially very rash decision-making.

I don’t know the whole story regarding her maids of honor, her parents, their friendships away from you, his parents, everybody’s brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, former roommates, and whatnot, but I can tell you that likely there would likely be a lot of hurt feelings and behind-the-back whispers rooting against the two of you as a couple (both from people who have a very good reason and for those types of people who just like to root against the happily-ever-after stories because they’re miserable shits). Emotional support outside of the relationship may be more difficult to come by and from what I’ve learned in the nearly 11 years with my wife is that when a couple is so insular as to rely solely on one another for 100% of their own emotional support, it causes problems.

My new advice would be to find a way to be happy for her and for yourself without her. Also, keep duct tape, a burlap sack, some rope, and a crowbar handy in case her groom-to-be ever lays a hand on her in anger.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

likely there would likely

Redundancy is redundant.

by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 8, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions  

That last bit of advice is good. I’ll carry it on my kidnapping toolbelt (I had Tim Allen design it for me, it has a useless V6 Hemi on the back) just as a precaution.

That being said, yeah you’re probably right. I missed yet another chance and I’ll have to live with that.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 8, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Of course it's useless...

….any Hemi is useless without 8 cylinders.

JJ is spot on though, at this point, you’ve likely missed your window.

But that also doesn’t mean you can’t still be a great friend for her. I’d concentrate on that and hopefully the things you’ve learned from this friendship can be used in the next one.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Dec 8, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

The V8 was too heavy apparently, but the V6 wasn’t.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 8, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

That's a tough one

I think JJ has it about right. At the end of the day though, you have to do what you feel is right. Just don’t do it the night before the wedding. That probably won’t work too well.

by Rob Rogacki on Dec 7, 2010 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Couldn't agree more with J.J.

I lost a girl to a best friend a while ago. Not a huge deal to me now because I was just a kid and I realize that, but at the time I was devastated. It has been 4 years or so and I still haven’t talked to a kid that I would have used to jump in front of a bullet for. They ended up together for about a year then broke up. They don’t talk to each other and I don’t talk to them.

If you are friends with the girl though I would say wait to see if it is going to stay “rocky” or get better. If it gets better I think it might be best to keep her as a friend and see what happens between them.

By all means though, if this is killing you inside, tell her now.

by Kjell on Dec 7, 2010 11:04 PM CST up reply actions  

oy

Have you ever had any idea that she might have feelings for you? When you think of person as a friend and then suddenly he tells you that he is in love with you, and you had no idea and are engaged to someone else …

Sometimes the best option is to cut off the relationship entirely. If she doesn’t share your feelings, she isn’t going to break off an engagement on the chance that it might possibly work out with you. More likely she will cut you out because otherwise it would be too awkward.

You have to tell her how you feel, but be prepared you may lose her not only as a girlfriend, but as a friend entirely.

Random Ramblings from a Somewhat Scattered Mind

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Dec 8, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions  

See my other comment. A lot of what you asked was in that comment without me knowing it.
http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2010/12/7/1861279/off-day-open-thread-let-it-all-out#53899961

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Dec 8, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

re: hudler

i wouldnt be so eager to dump the guy.

Last year I could not stand Ericsson’s play and would have loved to see him traded. This year he is vastly improved.

put hudler in the healthy scratch rotation with miller/eaves.

by wowjimi on Dec 8, 2010 12:07 AM CST reply actions  

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