Wings Give Up Two-Goal Lead, Lose 4-3
by joehass on May 4, 2010 10:19 PM CDT
in Game Recaps
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PrintSuddenly, the Detroit Red Wings are looking like the middle-of-winter Red Wings.
And one more performance like Tuesday night, and it'll be the summer Red Wings.
The San Jose Sharks scored a pair of goals in the third period to tie the game, then Patrick Marleau scored on a breakaway off a sloppy Red Wings shot in the other end to win 4-3 and take a 3-0 lead in the series.
This in spite of events that would make the Red Wings fans curse the officiating for a second straight game:
* A Henrik Zetterberg goal was overturned by the video replay room for a distinct kicking motion on a call that was certainly inconclusive from multiple angles.
* A phantom Justin Abdelkader slashing penalty that stopped a Red Wings power play just seven seconds into it.
* The Sharks getting 10:07 of power play time versus 2:07 for Detroit.
But, in the end, the Red Wings dug their own graves, failing to convert a penalty shot after Logan Couture was ruled to have covered the puck in the crease behind Evgeni Nabokov, giving up a goal with just four seconds remaining in the first period, then allowing three unanswered goals, including a Couture blast that Jimmy Howard simply misplayed.
In the first period, just two minutes after Zetterberg's first "goal" wasn't, an almost identical play took place: this time it was Nicklas Lidstrom's pass to Johan Franzen whose shot went off of Tomas Holmstrom's skate and past Nabokov. But where Zetterberg was guilty of skating perpendicular to the puck, Holmstrom was skating towards the puck, which made the deflection much less arguable for a kicking motion. The goal was reviewed, but stood, with Nicklas Lidstrom getting the second assist.
Five minutes later, Drew Miller took the puck behind the net and sent it to Cleary, who was camped out about 12 feet in front of the net. He didn't miss, netting his second of the playoffs, with Zetterberg earning an assist.
But with four seconds remaining in the first period, the Sharks would break through. Devin Setoguchi took a centering pass from Joe Pavelski and put it just above Howard's pads and into the net for his fifth of the playoffs. Ryan Clowe also picked up an assist.
In the second period, Zetterberg would take an odd angle shot as he was along the goal line. His shot moved off the goal line, but deflected off the skate of a Sharks player and just to the left of Nabokov and into the net. Valtteri Filppula and Brian Rafalski had assists, and the Red Wings lead returned to two goals.
In the third, the ice tilted towards the Sharks. Joe Thornton swiped the puck off a Red Wings faceoff win. With four Red Wings surrounding him, he brought the puck around the back of the net, about eight feet in front of the net, then fired a shot that went off Pavel Datsyuk's stick and past Howard for his second of the playoffs.
Then, after a bad turnover, Couture was along the goal line, skating towards the net, when his shot got through Howard for his third of the playoffs. Torrey Mitchell and Marc-Edouard Vlasic earned the assists.
Finally, in overtime, a Rafalski attempt was blocked, sending it around the boards to Thornton. The Wings had overcommitted, leaving Thornton and Marleau on a two-on-one. Howard committed to Thornton, who simply passed over to Marleau for the game winner.
Game Four is Thursday night. At this rate, it may well be their last.
Player of the game: Henrik Zetterberg. An overall strong performance, with a goal and an assist.
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yeah, because so many people join the oppositions blog before their own
by Casey Richey on May 4, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
So you felt more compelled to harass them vs celebrating a win with your fellow Sharks fans?
<~ wondering where the logic in that is
(Sharks fan here cause you probably don’t know)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Well, we do put a two day hold on comments after you sign up… so yeah.
Sorry he came in here to rub it in, guys. We know how it feels.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on May 4, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you kidding, TCY? Is this a new rule from the recent troll activity?
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
It was implemented before the playoff season to avoid just what is happening here … trolls. Recall last season we were bombarded with them as well. So with the 2 day hold, it gives them time to consider their initial comment. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
It's as simple as a click.
Your input now seems meaningless since it is more important to you to troll than celebrating over on your own site.
Trolls before goals...
My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters
idk about that...
In my estimation, the whole series has been, 7 on 5 hockey, & I use that term loosely. Although, @ times the kid in net looks like a deer caught in headlights, it would’ve been nice to have our battle tested goaltender actually ready for the playoffs.
JoeHass, stop you god forsaken whining!!
The Sharks won! Bottom line. There is new sherriff in town and it ain’t the WIngs. Your run is over. Get over it and get used to the Wings not being in the Finals for a while. Stop blaming the officiating. All you guys are is a bunch of excuses for why the Wings are losing. Put up or shutup!
I concur
That was the most obvious kicking motion that can happen in a hockey game, your reference to it as inconclusive is absurd.
That Zetterberg kick could have gone either way.
The precedence had been set with the Sedin no goal. I understood why this was a no goal, but I think that is a play that should probably be allowed. Either way, it didn’t affect the outcome since Detroit scored right after that.
This particular non-goal aside...
… why is it against the rules to kick the puck into the net in the first place?
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
I remember seeing someone ask that one time and it was said “cause this is hockey not soccer”. But I’m sure someone has a more technical answer. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Safety
One of the biggest reasons I’ve heard is safety.
Loose puck, d-man goes diving in front just as a player is kicking at it, kick comes up and Malarchuk’s the d-man.
As for “must go in off stick”, how many goals are innocent deflections off a leg or a face (thanks Drapes)?
I do think the league needs to sit down and do a bit of clarifying with the rule as it is currently written though. Last round, Sedin’s goal was disallowed even though the rule stated “distinct kicking motion” and the league officially stated they “did not see a distinct kicking motion”. I still haven’t quite understood that one.
ah … safety I can see them justifying … but how does that work if their skates are on the ice?
oh who knows, like you said, league needs to sit down and clarify the rule and many other rules. which we know they won’t do.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
So, it’s only unsafe if the skate leaves the ice in kicking motion…why not reword the rule so that you can knock it in off your skate, kick or not, so long as your skate never lifts off the ice? Of course, there’s still an opening for uncertainty…but it’s a lot less vague than the rule in place right now.
I’ve heard (on radio talk, TV, etc) this argument before, and it makes sense to me. I don’t think they’ll ever be able to completely remove ambiguity from the rule…but that being said, certainly it can be better than its current wording and interpretation.
the thing about that play is
sure, it looks like he lifts his toe at the end. but thats positioning, not kicking. IN MY OPINION, it looks more like z was positioning his foot as to be able to deflect it into the net rather than actually kicking it in. but it was close, and at first i thought he did kick it. i’m not surprised it was disallowed. now cue that asshole telling me i’m wrong and stupid for having an opinion :)
I thought he was trying to direct the puck to his stick for a tap-in
but his stick was lifted, so he couldn’t tap it in
I've heard
that it used to be up to the refs to decide whether it was intentional. That got quite frustrating so they changed it to “distinct kicking motion”.
But I think the spirit of the rule is that kicking is sort of an unfair advantage in the moment. The defenseman standing right there can tie up your stick, but can’t hold your body (or legs/feet). I imagine before this rule was in place, there were many frustrated D-men making perfect plays then pulling the puck out of their own net.
I’m not totally sure what the rule is about using your hand/arm to put in the puck though. I know you can’t push it towards the net with your hand, but maybe you can with your elbow?
Either way, it would be a lot easier to say it has to go in off a stick and be done with it. Now that they review everything they could choose to do that. I wonder if that would have been the original rule if they had 12 HD cameras and instant replay.
I shouldn't have said anything.
Thanks for the reply
I understand what you’re saying about the spirit of the rule and I’m not faulting your response, but to me this reasoning seems irrelevant. Why should it be considered an unfair advantage? If the defenseman truly makes a perfect play, the puck should be well on its way away from the net, not getting tangled up in a player’s feet.
I guess what I’m saying is: if a guy is skilled enough to be able to use his feet to redirect or even kick the puck into the net, why shouldn’t it be allowed? Why does the rule even have to exist? I thought the NHL was trying to increase scoring. You don’t increase scoring by giving the refs another subjective rule they have to try to interpret on the fly and another way that a goal can be disallowed.
Stupid laws (i.e. unreasonably low speed limits) breed disrespect for cops and for the law in general. And subjective rules breed disrespect for the refs, even when it isn’t really their fault.
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
I guess I don’t really care what the rule is as long as a majority of the people involved can agree on what happened.
I always thought that they could put in a little clause like this for the kicking rule:
(like, what we’re trying to say here is, hmmm…ok well think about it like this. If the puck were sitting totally still on the ice, would he have hit it into the net with his foot?)
But can you imagine the insane hackey-sack-like moves datsyuk could pull in the shootout if you were allowed to kick it in? Ridiculous.
I shouldn't have said anything.
Technically, the Wings run isn’t over. If I am correct, the Sharks only have 3 wins. 4 wins are needed to end a series. I’m not saying it’s likely (indeed, it is very, very unlikely) but, that’s why you play the games.
I’m a Pens fan, so I’m not too concerned about this series, but I do feel the need to stick up for the team that the Penguins have recently established a respectful rivalry with.
Glorious
I thought the Sharks and Wings...
… had a respectful rivalry, until reading some of the commentary on other boards (not this one) in the last few days.
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
Remember that this is the Internet
So it’s easier to get a skewed view of what people think. I doubt that most Red Wings fans feel remotely as hostile toward the Sharks as they do, say, the Avs or the Black Hawks.
It’s the playoffs, and people kinda lose themselves in it and go overboard on the comments. shrug
Yeah, until this series started I didn’t mind the Sharks… And after the series is over I probably won’t mind the Sharks again. Although if the Wings lose it may take a few days for that to happen.
But for now the Sharks are the most evil beings alive!
:)
But for now the Sharks are the most evil beings alive!
ha ha! and ditto … :)
altho I think that of the Ducks regardless if we are playing them or not.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
All 1 goal games
That could have gone either way. Giving up two late goals was the Wings trying to play it safe and keep away. Safe is death. The Franzen penalty in game 1 is the only call worth chirping about, but they wouldn’t have necessarily won and did they have to get a penalty right after to make it a 5 on 3. 10 penalties in game 2 showed the Wings were getting frustarted and being out-shot.
Howard keep your stick on the ice would ya.
McCourty will do. If the Packers don't take him first... they would.
What?
The overturned Zetterberg goal was absolutely conclusive. I dunno what replays you saw but your obviously not an expert if you couldn’t identify a kicking motion.
lol
I’m not even trolling. Seriously watch a reply from some other feed and it’s really obvious. His toe is pointed up in the air by the end of the kick.
bellybuttons?
Everyone has one? :)
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
replay*
Also it was Jason Williams’ shot at the end that went wide and lead to the 2 on 1 breakways with Thornton and Marleau. I’d say the blame goes to him, and Rafalski who couldn’t have handled that 2 on 1 any worse.
What was Rafalski doing? He was pointing his stick at Thornton while the puck slid right in front of him to Marleau for the game winner. WTF? on a 2 on 1 his job is to prevent the pass, and he gave it up without a fight. Completely confused by his play.
"Oh, buy Sam a drink and get his dog one too!" - Mike Lange
Trolling...
Trolling another team’s fansite to argue and talk trash. Yeah… you are trolling.
I’m really not, i just watched the TSN replay on the NHL.com highlights and i could see why you think it was a close call but the replay on the CSN-CA feed makes it pretty clear. I’m sure someone will make a GIF or somethin.
i could see why you think it was a close call
End of story. It was a 50/50 call, purely subjective. I’d wager most Sharks fans thought it was the right call, and most Wings fans thought it was the wrong call. But it wasn’t clear in any way, it was a judgment based on an obnoxiously vague rule. Not complaining, just saying what it is.
lol you didn’t keep reading past that sentence did you? I can’t imagine any self respecting Wings fan honestly saying that there was not a kicking motion after seeing the same replay that was shown on CSN California.
from the reverse angle
It saw his foot move into the puck and redirect it. that angle showed a pretty distinct kick. But I think only the sharks feed had it
by NorthbayWingsFan on May 5, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Most telling sign...
…when even Mickey was grimacing that he thought it was a kicking motion.
There were 2 angles shown on FSD. 1, from the near side, made it look good. The other, from the far point, made it far more incriminating.
I wasn’t happy with the call (I’d have liked a goal) but I don’t think the league got it wrong.
But from the opposite angle it didn't.
I argue the first angle had the best view…the reverse angle made it look worse than it was. As Mcikey Redmond put it, it depends on your interpretation, and which replay you rely on. See, my argument against the reverse angle was you only see Z at the very last moment, so it looks like a kick, but is unfair because you don’t see what both his legs are doing prior to the supposed kick on that replay. Does that make sense? On the original angle, it clearly looked like (to me, at least) he was just trying to make a hockey play, receive the pass with his skate using proper placement and wasn’t able to get his stic down in time. Also, it’s worth pointing out this “kick” wasn’t directly at the net, it was a “kick” that was parallel to the net, if you could even call it a kick.
All I’m saying is it wasn’t as clear cut as Khaaz makes it out to be. One angle doesn’t magically decide it one way or the other. It’s all interpretation. Which is why it seemed 50/50 to me, even after seeing the reverse angle.
I had to listen to that play on the radio as I was still on my way home. Jamie Baker (yeah, the one who beat you in 1994) said he thought it should be considered a good goal. However, in the current rules, with the readjustment of the foot, he knew it wouldn’t stand. By the time I got in the house and saw the replays, he was right; the goal was disallowed.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Sharks fan here to say
You really are. It doesn’t matter if that’s not what you think your intentions are, what you’re doing is trolling.
How am i being a prick? There really was a DISTINCT kicking motion. I don’t see how anyone could argue otherwise after watching a good replay.
because the call is over and done with
he wrote a recap of the game. that means you recap events that happened in the game, one event being the controversial call, and beings this is a wings blog, not a sharks its probably going to be a little bias.
the point is no one is crying over the call, no one is saying that is the reason we lost. but dont come in here trying to argue with us, that is trolling.
and im going to have to disagree with you on the distinct kicking motion
its 50/50. to me, probably because im a wings fan, it looked like he was trying to stop the puck with his skate then use his stick, it happened to go in. but the call on the ice was a goal, thats the part that is frustrating people. that means they had enough evidence that he was trying to kick it in not stop it, which i dont think they had.
key work think. im not saying im right you are wrong.
It really shouldn’t matter what team you root for when judging a call like that one. I don’t think any non-Red Wings fan could look at that replay and say that there was not a distinct kicking motion.
But whatever, i guess i’m just annoyed after reading comments by other Wings fans on other blogs about how the Sharks haven’t deserved any of the wins they’ve gotten, and that the officials are just giving us the wins.
Go away
Oh, there was plenty of absurdity last night again. But we’re well aware that the Wings had this game in hand. They were controlling the play for the first two periods and had a cushy two goal lead going into the third. Then they did something we haven’t seen since about mid-season: set back in a (weak) defensive posture, let SJ take it to them, and blow a very manageable two goal lead.
Some absurd calls aside, Wings had this one and shot themselves in the foot with that final period. Nothing’ else to it.
But seriously, if this is all you have to say just stop. We live and die with this team and at least you’re helping me translate my sorrow into anger at you. So that’s something.
No, but that's not the point.
The point is you came on here ready to argue a play that no one here has said significantly changed the outcome of the game. And you came here with the attitude of “I know I’m right, y’all are wrong and dumb”. I mean, were you trying to ruffle our feathers? That’s what it seemed like to most of us.
Shouldn't you guys be celebrating with your fellow fans?
Jeez, hanging out at another team’s site rubbing it in. Way to go.
bummer of a game
I don’t think Detroit was hosed like game 2, but I still feel that damage had already been done. Tonight’s game was a good one. Here’s to hoping we can get at least one out of this series before it’s over…
by Winger in the desert on May 4, 2010 10:47 PM CDT reply actions
I could see one desperation win
Maybe two. But four in a row against San Jose? That’s a really, really deep hole. At this point, I’m just hoping to avoid a sweep and see what happens from there.
This was the desperation win
Didn’t work out too well. Anything after this is likely just trying to tire out the Sharks for their next series.
True
I’m not saying it’s impossible. But it’s very unlikely.
Assuming they don't give up in game 4 and win that one,
game 5 will be the toughest one for the Wings to win. If they manage to do that, I will have renewed hope for this series. Until then, though, I will just hope each game isn’t the last time I get to watch them this season.
Wing's mistakes are costing them...
But it would be nice to have more than 2:07 of power play time, and I really think they should have had at least 1 or 2 more PP’s. Also, the phantom penalty on the power play was taken by Holmstrom, not Abdelkader. I really think the problem is that the Wing’s penalties are being seen because either the Sharks are falling or the Wings hooks are more pronounce to cause the Sharks to fall. The Sharks are hooking and holding, but not enough to make a Wing fall down, and they don’t dive either. (not counting Howard) I don’t count goalies because every goalie dives. Especially Naflopkov.
Officiating or not
The Wings had control of this game; a 2-goal lead in the 3rd period and they couldn’t hold it. Williams’ errant shot helped create the 2-on-1 – you have to put that on net. He didn’t.
This was a very winnable game and the Wings just didn’t do it.
1 and 3 when scoring 3 goals
For the second straight game, the Red Wings had the lead and instead of padding it, they let it slip away. Even though the shots don’t show it, the Sharks controlled play in most of the second period and all of the third period.
At least their penalty killing improved. At this rate, they’ll look like a real playoff team sometime after they are eliminated next game.
The outcome is especially pathetic when you consider that the score could have easily been 4-0 going into the second period (first goal allowed, penalty shot score, actually playing in the final minute of the first).
GREAT GAME!
Regardless of who won, this was a GREAT game. I think the Wings are a phenomenal team and executed some amazing plays. Same goes for the Sharks. I am a huge Sharks fan and am really glad that they are finally going somewhere with their talent. Anyways, good job Wings, you really played your heart out and the Wings will always be an amazing team.. but you gotta hand it to the Sharks for finally stepping it up! =)
Good playoff hockey.
As a Wings fan, I will say that the games are certainly exciting, even if they haven’t been going the way I’d prefer.
Yes,
They are definitely exciting. The Wings are so fast and are always focused on the puck. I’m actually really glad that both teams are facing each other in the playoffs because they are such great teams and can learn a lot from each other.
by makosharkgirl on May 4, 2010 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I spent most of the game not breathing.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
You too?
These are definitely two of the most exciting teams in the NHL to watch. This is some awesome hockey we’re being treated to.
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
Wings screwed themselves in this one
You could argue the officiating turned Games 1 and 2 but this one the Wings handed the Sharks on a silver platter. 3-1 lead into the the third and they lose 4-3 in OT…ugh. The penalty killers did their jobs, but Jimmy gave up two TERRIBLE goals. Also, Ericsson is completely useless.
Sorry my fellow Wings fans, but I believe this one to be over. I think Detroit comes out and wins Game 4 but the Sharks close it out in San Jose.
Back off man, I'm a scientist
that’s what I’m thinking too. Maybe this will be a good thing. 3 years in a row of going WCF or further takes a toll. Use the rest so we can get the cup next year. :D
by Winger in the desert on May 4, 2010 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I've been waffling
Between wanting a deep playoff run and wanting some rest for the team for a change. Short term of course I want more wins – but long term, I think the rest would be better. Especially when they won’t have to start with a ridiculously crushed training camp schedule and opening in Europe next year.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
Not only rest
But maybe some higher draft picks (if they have any)? The Wings’ core isn’t going to be around forever.
mostly rest though
Even the very highest picks aren’t sure things – even this year there are the top two, and then a handful of others, and then a largely undifferentiated mass of young hockey talent.
They hardly traded away all their picks like some teams (Calgary is in a lot of trouble that way).
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
What 2?
The game tying goal was terrible, but Thornton’s deflected off Datsyuks stick. If you watch it the replay, if that puck doesn’t hit Datsyuk, Howard is in position and makes the save.
The first goal, looks worse than it was. He was adjusting himself into the angle and got caught with his pad up. Still not his fault as the team should have cleared that fxxxing puck.
Well no, that first goal was (partially) his fault
Granted, as you say, the defense shouldn’t have been playing around like that with less than 20 seconds left in the period…and Howard was unfortunate to have is pad lift for that split second as the puck slid under him…but unfortunate or not he needs to make that save.
The tying goal and the first goal
Yea the first one they should have cleared out, but Howard has to have that one with 1.9 seconds left. Right through the five hole on a particularly weak shot.
Back off man, I'm a scientist
This is a Red Wings blog.
So no.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
ten or so days ago
I predicted our season wasn’t going to last that much longer because we couldn’t win playoff games at home. In round one, it sort of helped us in a weird way because we were able to win on the road more often than not. I felt winning game 7 was possible, but over the long term, the Wings couldn’t sustain a deep playoff run without home victories. Whether you have home ice advantage or not, you need to win at home in the playoffs and the Wings’ last solid, 60-minute home effort during the playoffs was Game 5 of last year’s Final.
I’m not quite sure who to blame for that, or if it’s really anyone’s fault, but Game 7 was ludicrous and most of the home efforts I’ve seen have been subpar including this. I only caught about the last 8 minutes of play, but San Jose tied it up pretty much as soon as I sat down, and I knew once it was going into overtime that the game would be over (and lost) by the time I made it home. People chide me for being such a pessimist, but the only thing I’ve been wrong about so far has been my prediction that we wouldn’t make the playoffs. In fairness, we were in 10th place and going nowhere fast at the time ;P
Good season, good effort down the stretch, and don’t take a wrecking ball to the roster this year. I think Holland was right to stand pat at the trade deadline, and I imagine most roster changes will be the result of retirements rather than trades. I hope (and expect) for Lidstrom and Homer to re-sign, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Drapes and/or Maltby considers retirement. I doubt we’ll see much in the way of roster-shaking trades, but if I could see one or two.
No Limits.
A wise man once said...
“Don’t stop believin’.”
Stranger things have happened. Maybe living on the brink of disaster will put them in high gear.
Wasn’t able to catch the game (Stupid finals. Stupid school)
That being said, I felt for you guys on this one. As a Pens fan, that may sound shocking, but I don’t hate you guys like I do the Flyers or the Caps. You guys are a respected rival, a team that’s got the history to back up their talk.
Being down 3-0 is pretty grim. I’m not going to lie. But, well, it’s happened a couple times (Once to the Pens. Stupid Islanders), so, nothing is a given.
Good luck, hope to see you guys claw your way out of this.
Glorious
by Presidentjlh on May 5, 2010 1:03 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
miss the end of the game. for good reasons
fuck it. not going to say the season is over for obvious reasons (because its not). but we have an extremely slim chance of pulling this out, and by some miracle we do pull it out. i dont see us beating the sharks or nucks in the next round. two straight seven game series puts wear on these players. so either way its not looking good.
so fuck it, i hope we pull a miracle and win this series but if not. honestly im not that upset about it. i know that sounds shitty. but with all the shit we went through this year im not disappoint, not to mention weve played almost 3 months more of hockey than all of chi, sj, and nucks in the last two years.
plus my beard is pissing me off, so i kind of want to shave it.
so....
anyone thinking we should try and shake things up and put in Ozzie, or are you all comfortable with Jimmy? I am not saying- at all- that I blame him. Just curious what you all are thinking.
No reason to change now
Weak goals on 1 and 3 yesterday, but I’d still much rather see him than Osgood.
I'm comfortable with Howard
The bigger problem is the play in front of him. Frankly, he’s made some big saves that have kept the Wings from getting buried.
My point
The people who are crying about the kicked goal need to stop.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
obvoiusly we are going to talk about it because it was an important event in the game, but no one is saying that is the reason we lost, nor do i think anyone cried over it
But, in the end, the Red Wings dug their own graves, failing to convert a penalty shot after Logan Couture was ruled to have covered the puck in the crease behind Evgeni Nabokov, giving up a goal with just four seconds remaining in the first period, then allowing three unanswered goals, including a Couture blast that Jimmy Howard simply misplayed.
you need to remember what team you root for
and what team we root for. if you agree with what we say over here, SBN has a blog just for you:
you can go there and state your case, sure you will find a couple more people that will agree with you over there. if you want a friendly debate (instead of “stop crying”) you are more then welcome to stay.
even though a sweep is possible
don’t judge the red wings for their choke. they fought so hard after olympic break just to get back into the playoffs for the 19th straight year.
but theres also a slight chance that the red wings could push 3 wins if they get motivated. to be honest, i would not be surprised if babcock draws a lottery and brings osgood into net
by forever_rednwhite on May 5, 2010 3:11 AM CDT reply actions
I don't know that you can really call 3 goals a game a choke
The first two games, the Sharks scored on 5-on-3s that the Red Wings did not get and this one it went to OT.
Maybe after this, the calls will reverse and the Wings will get 5-on-3s in consecutive games. I doubt that though.
Losing is not the same thing as choking
If it were, there would be 29 teams every season guilty of choking.
Your Wings fought hard to get into the playoffs at all, then got past a very determined Phoenix team, and this series with the Sharks isn’t over yet. I’d hardly call that choking.
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
I wouldn't say a choke
If the Wings lose this series, it will be because they got flat-out beat. No shame in that.
very aggrevated still
Congrats Sharks…but man if you guys blow this 3-0 lead i would think this would be the ultimate choke yeah?…Wings just don’t have it this year plus you guys are having a magical run this may be your year…if it comes down to you guys vs the Hawks or Penguins i will be rooting for you guys
TULO = 2010 MVP!
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
LETS GO WINGS!
That's why
That’s why I am now rooting for the Canucks. Screw CHI, PIT and SJ.
by redwingxviii on May 5, 2010 7:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just don't let it be Chicago against Pittsburgh for the Cup
My head would explode.
My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters
exactly
TULO = 2010 MVP!
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
LETS GO WINGS!
by TuLoRocks2008 on May 5, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
yep
go nucks
TULO = 2010 MVP!
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
LETS GO WINGS!
by TuLoRocks2008 on May 5, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Last night, controversy aside, proved two things
1) The Jonathan Ericsson experiment has gone on long enough. The guy is a useless tool that will never amount to anything good defensively. Either use him as a forward, buy him out, or trade him for a bag of pucks because the guy absolutely blows. He is 100% useless and his “play” (if you can even call it that) has been so embarassing that I just hate the guy every time his skates touch the ice.He literally does nothing useful out there.
2) We don’t have it this year. That shut down, win-at-all-costs attitude. It’s just gone. Poof. And to be honest, it’s been gone for a very long time, almost all season. The Wings teased us a little after the Olympics, looking like a totally dominant team, but I think that just wore them all out, or it was an anomally. Because what we saw in March-April has completely gone out the window in May.
The confidence is shaken, the work ethic isn’t there, and I really think they’re just burnt out.
As a Wings fan, I will always believe that the officiating in Game 2 is the reason we are where we are, but logically, we are also where we are because of our lack of determination, and quite frankly our lack of fight-for-your-life attitude.
Also, trolling Sharks fans, get a life. Go celebrate the win instead of rubbing it in just to be a dick. You just end up looking like a douche.
by eight_legged_freaks on May 5, 2010 5:46 AM CDT reply actions
Yup… that was my feeling last night, our blueline just can’t cut it this year. Ericsson is useless, I’d rather have Lebda than him.
And they just don’t seem to have what it takes this year. I held onto hope for a long time, but… my hope is now gone.
And yeah the reffing still sucked, but the Wings seemed to give up somewhere in the 2nd period and never get it back.
And until they get a Cup, they really have no room to talk......:)
11 Cups here…..no Cups there……the kind of math I like. :)
La naiba cu Monkey Rally !!!!!
by Captain Fubar on May 5, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Refs Eff Up Again
Too bad the refs didn’t see the 7 Sharks players on the ice when they scored the OT goal. Damn, just can’t get an honest game in this series, besides game 2. Go Wings, with 4 straight!!
Here is proof all things are not called equal.
Nice call on this one refs.
wrong link. Sorrry
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=5437177&id=661772951
You do understand how changes work, right?
Like, every time a change happens there are too many men on the ice. I mean, it’s obvious you don’t, based on your whining, but I thought I’d let you know.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
no need to be a prick on the oppostions blog
its cool if you want to debate, but dont start arguments.
but he is right. it was the right non-call (though id like to see consistant calling for both teams, if you are going to swallow your whistle for one teams too many, dont be blow happy for the other team). all 4 players were in no way effecting the play, nor could they from back there. thats like calling a holding on the complete opposite side of the field that the ball is on (in football).
pointless, to debate that. sucks. if you want to blame anyone blame shitty defense we’ve seen throughout the playoffs. or playing to not lose, rather than to win in the 3rd period. you knew sharks were going to come out with energy, but we did what we always do and let off the gas with a two goal lead
Sorry
I’ve kept telling myself to not come over here and act like a douche, but then I get a few drinks in me and I forget. Sincere apologies and I’ll just slink away now.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
hahahaha
its fine, we like when other teams come in here for friendly debates (though for some reason it seems like sharks fans have been trying to take over this blog). just dont say anything you would take offense to.
other then that. debate on.
We're from Silicon valley
we’re techno-geeks centered in a land where we think people care what we think. It inspires us to go forth and spew our vomit over other peoples floors. Just smile and nod and wave to the poor hapless Sharks fans that wander in and think you care what they think. They can’t help themselves.
Mostly the problem exists because usually at this time of year the Sharks are imploding and Sharks “fans” are out trolling other actual Sharks fans, I think with the lack of implosion so far they’re venturing off into new and unexplored territory.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
not that I'm accusing any Sharks fans here in particular.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Rule 74 - Too many men
74.1 Too Many Men on the Ice – Players and goalkeepers may be changed at any time during the play from the players’ bench provided that the player or players leaving the ice shall be within five feet (5’) of his players’ bench and out of the play before the change is made.
As long as all players going off were within 5 feet when their replacement came on, I’d see no problem with it.
That's the problem with the time difference
Mom and dad haven’t put the kids to bed yet. I guess this is the cool place to hang out.
Disappointing but not shocking. I think game two took whatever wind we had out of our sails. I am with Baroque on looking for a nice long summer for the lads. It’s been a cluster of a season to say the least. Despite that, there have been lots of nice surprises, including Miller and Eaves. I love those guys. We’ve got Happy back and we’ll get to see Abby all of next season. Jimmy must play because Jimmy must learn from the situation and gain the playoff experience. All in all, there is so much to look forward to.
Now, all pressure is off. No one expects we’ll win so I’d like to see us take the game Thursday, even if it does mean another damned West Coast trip. I am out tomorrow night but will record the game and watch it no matter what the final score. Go Wings!
Living on the West Coast as I do
I don’t mind those trips. :)
Eight_legged_freaks
While I agree Ericsson has been horrible this season, I don’t think its time to give up on him quite yet. He is still very young and it will take time to come around.
I’m sure its quite difficult to play until the last game of the year for the past 2 seasons, lose a lot of depth and still continue to be as successful. As a Wings fan of course I want them to win the cup every year, but being eliminated right now is not the worst thing that could happen to a team.
Sharks played well last night. Anyone blaming the refs is just a plain moron. The Wings had every opportunity to put that game out of reach and they failed to do so. Sharks are the better team right now.
Yeah, I know, Ericsson is still learning the ropes, I just feel like he’s not going to get any better.Sort of an Aki Berg situation. Permanent liability on the blue line, in exchange for some size that MIGHT someday be used.
In all honesty, if they want a young guy, with size, who will actually use it somewhat, keep Tollefsson around, give him a shot. He’s a defensive defenseman who doesn’t hesitate to throw his weight around which would be nice to have instead of Ericsson who gets outmuscled and then just plain gives up.
It’s unfair to pin the blame on him, and that’s not really what I’m trying to do. All I’m saying is that I wish Babcock’s boner for Ericsson would finally subside so he could actually look at him and realize that the only way he might ever have success is playing as a forward.
by eight_legged_freaks on May 5, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Ericsson
was behind the San Jose net when the break started the other way. For a guy that skates that slowly, he should never be there.
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=5437177&id=661772951
Stop trying to post the picture already
The picture you are showing is of 2 defenseman skating off and 2 coming on. None of which are involved in the play or touched the puck. While technically this can be called, it usually is not when the players exiting and entering are not involved in the play at all.
Couldnt
get on here last night, way to angry. Im a true believer to the very end but must admit I think the boys better start setting Tee Times. All three of these games could have gone either way and were just not getting it done. O well, LETS GO RED WINGS!
New Draft Rule: Holland For the Love of God
Please Draft one player over 6’ 3", who plays hard and can muck it up in the corners and won’t get bitched around.
This is becoming an all-too familiar trend in outmuscling the Red Wings. I’m not looking for anyone who is amazing, just a big guy who actually uses his size to win the battles.
by eight_legged_freaks on May 5, 2010 8:10 AM CDT reply actions
Thats seems
to be the problem… even out big guys.. E, Lils.. dont use their size at all. I agree, lets get some big physical players.
Unless Happy Huds has gone on a massive ‘roid rampage in Russia (alliteration FTW!) I still think we’re going to be manhandled by the bigger teams. We haven’t really had a power forward now for years, and I think Brendan Shanahan barely counts, but at least he mucked it up.
by eight_legged_freaks on May 5, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought Filppula looked possessed last night. He was hitting harder and scrumming more than the rest of the team… combined (except perhaps Cleary, he had quite a bit of effort as well).
He’s not a large guy. It just proved to me that we didn’t have the necessary drive to win if Fil is the only one putting that effort out there.
I've been saying
(well so has everyone and their dog) that Fil is one of those great players who kinda flies under the radar. I think he’s probably one of the better passers we have, and with some work on his shot he could be very dangerous out there. It’s good to see this kind of energy from him, I just wish it did us a goddamn iota of good.
No Limits.
errr
I’m pretty sure we outhit them, actually. I don’t have the stats handy but IIRC we had more hits.
Hits don’t win games, holding on to leads wins games. There’s something wrong either with the Wings’ doctrine or their execution, one of the two. I think this is the ninth or tenth time this season we’ve surrendered a 2 goal lead in the 3rd.
And you guys thought they’d win game 3… lol.
No Limits.
That is exactly my concern… for some reason this year we seem to be prone to giving up multigoal leads in the 3rd period.
During such games the forwards seem to stop trying as hard to get the puck to the net, and then the defense opens up with stupid pinches… and the other team goes and scores. Every single time.
33PP in 3 Games
If anything the refs need to find a corner and face the wall the have about a good of chance calling something right that way then actually watching the game.
22PP for the Sharks, 11PP for the wings. (Granted 4 PP were under 8sec’s so) 20PP for the Sharks 9 for the Wings.
I still think the wings can win this, but even if they don’t all I really ask for is in Game 4 the PP stop looking so lopsided
I know Sharks fans, I can't believe it either
You’re team hasn’t choked away this series. But in case you weren’t aware, SB Nation does have their own Sharks blog. I would link it, but I don’t know what it’s called cause I feel no need to go talk shit on someone else’s blog.
My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters
interesting fun fact
I believe the Wings have now lost 4 of their last 5 playoff home games
No Limits.
What will be the deal with Lidstrom, Howard?
Already looking into the off season here – do we have an idea of what it might take from a cap standpoint to lock in Lidstrom for one or two more years? And given the very soft goals (Mr. 5-Hole) let in by Jimbo, is he a work in progress, do we keep going with him and hope the experience pays us dividends down the road?
I’m sure Howard will be re-signed. He’ll probably get a 3-5 year deal with a slightly lower price point compared to what Ozzie has now.
Lidstrom, I don’t know. He’s not getting 7 mil, I know that much (or will at least be surprised if he does). My guess is that its a 2 year contract for 3-4 each. Get him to cut his pay in order to free up cash for free agency.
My guess is also that Lilja is gone and that Kindl gets a shot next year. Ericsson has 1 year left to play like a big man.
Bertuzzi and Maltby are gone as well, with Afrogator, Eaves, Miller, Hudler and Helm coming back (all are RFA). I can really see Afro doing well on the first or second line as the bruising energy guy.
I’m not 100% sure about Bertuzzi yet. I think they want (for some reason) to keep him but Willy will be gone.
by Casey Richey on May 5, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I think
that most roster changes this year will come from retirements rather than trades. I can see them dropping Bert not because he’s been bad for us necessarily, but because I got the impression his stay here was always meant to be temporary in the first place. Also, I get the impression he was meant to be more of a screen than anything else, but has (at times) tried to get entirely too fancy-schmancy with the puck. He scores a beautiful looking goal every once in a while, and I suspect he believes he’s capable of scoring more of those than he currently does.
If I were a betting man, I’d say Bert and Williams are probably our most likely roster exits, and I could see Maltby considering retirement. I think Lidstrom will sign again, but I doubt it’ll be for a 3-4 year contract. He put off contract negotiations until the postseason, which suggests to me that what he ends up doing next year will depend in large part on how this season ends (which is looking more and more like “swept in the WCF semis”). Homer will probably re-sign as well, I imagine.
No Limits.
I hope Lidstrom doesn't retire
Even at his age, he’s still an amazing defenseman, one of the best in the league.
If nothing else, I’m curious to see just how long he can keep playing at that level… :)
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
well
Lids is getting up there, but even in spite of the ice time he gets, defensemen generally have more longevity than forwards. Chelios is like 50 and he still plays.
I’m 70 or 80% sure Lids will re-sign for at least a year, maybe two. I’m not sure he’s one of those guys that will keep playing until he can’t walk anymore (like Chelios) but I can see him coming back from another season and I have no doubt the Red Wings organization wants to keep him around.
No Limits.
The thing is, with the return of Hudler, and Afro playing as well as he is, there isn’t room or need for Bert.
Afro plays harder and skates faster than Bert, and like I said, would be a good energy guy on the first or second line (basically whichever one doesn’t use Homer).
oh I agree, I’m just saying I dont know how the front office will handle it.
by Casey Richey on May 5, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Even though he doesn't show it
Bert has skill that Gator does not. I just don’t see him scoring more than 10 goals most seasons. (I think he could get 40 assists though; early in the season, it seemed like he was creating a scoring chance just about every other shift.)
Ozzy and Howie are on for next year
Then it’s looking like Howard will take over as the “starter” and Larsson will be his backup
What the puck?
Game3 kick in goal could have went either way..what gets me is the amount of b.s calls going against the wings. maybe the sharks dont score on the p.p s but playing shorthanded so much is taking its toll. the interfernce call to the sharks in game 2 was just as bad. so who the hell hires these refs?
playing the waiting game..
Hi! Sharks fan here..
I just wanted to say that I am having serious anxiety just waiting for the game tomorrow!! I think we can all agree that it’s going to be a freaking amazing game regardless of the outcome. The intensity of the last three games is a bit overwhelming and and I think it’s just going to get even crazier tomorrow. Red Wings fans, you guys have an AMAZING team and it’s always so exciting watching them play. Of course, I want the Sharks to win and FINALLY go to the Stanley Cup, but it’s going to be a tough fight to get there… especially when you’re playing a team like the Wings.
Also, hopefully the refs stop being douches and stop making such bad calls on both teams. Boo on them.
Any chance
we’ll see Ozzie in game 4?
I was a little peeved the sharks didn’t play Boucher against the Ducks last playoffs. Especially with how well he’s been performing this post season.
by mannythebenevolent on May 5, 2010 1:48 PM CDT reply actions
i say no
You’ve gone this far with Howard, why change now? Howards only been responsible for maybe 3 of the 12 goals this series, everyone in front of him has just been bad.
I doubt it
I think the torch has been passed. It’s Howard’s team to win or lose with. I don’t think you’ll see Osgood unless Howard is ill or injured.
Howard’s 26 – still young for a goaltender. He got you to the postseason against steep odds. Next season will be when you’ll see whether he learned from his mistakes or not. It’s way too soon to give up on him.
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
Rafalski
I’ve never posted before, but I just gotta say that Rafalski’s defense on Thornton and Marleau’s 2 on 1 was non-existent. When they came down the ice, Rafalski was standing straight up, and his stick wasn’t anywhere near Thornton. He should have had it down on the ice, taking away the pass to Marleau, and at least let Howard take on Thornton 1 on 1. As it was, Thornton passed right in front of Raf, and all he could do was make a lame kick at it after it passed. Fucking ridiculous, and not what you’d expect of a veteran defenseman.
Howard
overplayed the shot. It’s Thornton, he’s going to pass it. Regardless if he has the lane to do so. Howard played like a rookie on the play.
True, Raflaski could have done a better job taking away the pass. Odd man rushes are tough to defend against. Especially with high caliber players like Thornton and Marleau.
by mannythebenevolent on May 5, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
And especially at the end of the shift. I haven’t looked to see, but I really wouldn’t be surprised if Raf didn’t have anything left.
This is another reason why if you’re going to miss the net, you miss it near side. If you miss to the far side, you’re hanging your D out to dry.
I hope the talk of Ritola for Williams tomorrow night is true.
Well the Wings had the 4 on 2 rush the play before because the Sharks were doing an ill-advised line change. I watched the replay, and Raf hung back while the others were pushing. If he was tired, he should’ve ran to the bench to get someone else’s fresh legs out there.
And Manny, you’re right…Thornton’s an assist machine. How could Raf not have guessed that he would try to pass first and at least try to take the passing lane away??
Ugh…I need to go do something else before set my shirt on fire.
In Howard's defense...
… he’d gotten burned at least once back in the third by cheating away from the post. He may have still had Couture’s goal ringing in his head and have been determined to protect the post at all costs.
But it is true that Thornton rarely shoots, preferring to pass if at all possible. Believe me, we wish he’d shoot more often. Or at least pass it to the back of the net… :)
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
JoeBlogg... Rafalski's defense wasn't non-existent...
Didn’t you see him pointing out there. (Sarcasm font)
sounds like...
he got hit in the back with a puck right before the play went down though…
by tkn on May 5, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
Even though a lot of the Sharks players acted like assholes in this series, I still enjoy watching them play the Wings. I’ll go with either Vancouver (even though Alex Burrows is a dick) or San Jose and I’ll take anyone in the East other then fucking seeing Pittsburgh in the finals again. Even though they’re down 2-0 I want the Flyers to come back and win this series because of one reason: Chris Pronger (who’ve thought?). Another Flyers-Pens series might end up turning out different with him running rampant.
My prefs
East: Boston
West: Vancouver, but if San Jose wins the conference, I wouldn’t mind seeing them win.
Even though a lot of the Sharks players acted like assholes in this series
If I’m an opposing player, and you like me, I’m obviously doing something very, very wrong. :)
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
+1 on that
despite his occasional inconsistencies, I actually had a lot of respect for Nabokov coming into this series; certainly more than most bloggers I’ve read.
Not no mo’.
No Limits.
IMO
Nabokov is too inconsistent, often going stretches without allowing fewer than 3 goals in a game. As it is though, he doesn’t even match Fleury’s upside (and Fleury looks like he’s battling the puck even when it’s nowhere near him most of the time).
well then obviously it is not likely that we come back in this series
but i am proud of the way the team rallied back from all the injuries early on and made a run to the playoffs…Sharks are having a great series and everything is going there way for once so good for them but that being said…series isn’t over until the team wins 4 games…if anybody is capable of a 0-3 come back i would definitely say it would be us and if somebody was definitely capable of blowing a 3-0 lead with there history it would be the Sharks….but unfortunately the way things have been going in this series and the way this defense occasionally has lapses as they have had all year…it would be very very very tough to see them putting 4 straight great games together…anyway Go Wings!…try to pull off the miracle!
TULO = 2010 MVP!
Troy Tulowitzki: "When people think of the Rockies, I want them to think of a winning organization."
LETS GO WINGS!
decided im shaving tomorrow.
growing it out isnt working, so need to break tradition and shake things up a bit.
They can do it
If the Red Wings win game 4 by any means necessary (fluky bounce in triple OT, another own-goal, whatever) and light up Nabokov in game 5, they can take over the series and make it look like they were just playing with the Sharks.
The question is whether they can pull out one win this series or if they are too emotionally drained.
“We have to come out and show a lot of desperation in that next game here at home to push it to a Game 5 in San Jose,‘’ Lidstrom said. "That’s all we can do really.‘’
That’s the way to play every game in the playoffs (or the regular season, for that matter): all you can do is win the next/this game, so no point worrying about the last game or the game after. Just focus on what you can do something about.
I think at this point
I’d rather be down a goal going into the third than up by two. I’m serious.
No Limits.
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