Jimmy D's Honesty and another Top Ten List
Red Wings Senior Vice President Jimmy Devellano is unquestionably one of the best hockey minds in the game. He's responsible for being the architect of the model NHL franchise over the last two decades and has brought positive changes to the entire NHL. Unfortunately, the old guy's honest to reporters too, so you get things like this tidbit which at the time was the best advice he could have given, but wasn't comforting to a head-in-the-sand optimist like me. Turns out that he was right. The Red Wings did not have the record they had achieved the previous year and did have to work very hard to make the playoffs.
Well, Jimmy's at it again with crap I don't want to hear, but is the honest truth from a guy who knows way more about hockey than I do. It's not even that I necessarily disagree with him when he answers the question about which NHL player he'd pick right now to build a team around with this:
Sidney Crosby because of his youth, ability to lead, and great talents. He’s a great young player that has already won a Stanley Cup and lead Canada to a Gold Medal. Pittsburgh has also made the finals twice with him, the first time when we beat them out, and then they beat us the second time around. He’s a bright young superstar.
It's just that, I don't know if you know this, but Penguins fans and Red Wings fans don't really get along very well and the topic of Sidney Crosby is often a bit of a sore spot between them. For Red Wings fans, this has to hurt as much as it hurt Penguins fans to hear Sidney Crosby give Henrik Zetterberg all the credit he deserves for having shut him down effectively over two finals series and through a few regular season games. What? Oh, well it would feel something like that if he had done that. But, I'll leave the inevitable backlash sniping to the comments section. Jimmy D's comments got me thinking of the people I would select first if I were building a team. I've come up with a top ten list of them. Join me after the jump.
1. Jonathan Toews C Chicago Blackhawks: If there were an award to be handed out for best hockey player over the last calendar year which allowed you to take the playoffs and international play into consideration, it's hard to argue that Toews doesn't win it. He wasn't a Hart Trophy finalist during the regular season, thanks to the "do whatever it takes to help my stacked team win, even if it hurts my numbers" attitude, but he was Canada's best forward at the Olympics, the Conn Smythe trophy winner in the postseason, and a consummate professional. I don't know, maybe I'm a little blinded that he looks so mature next to the five-month younger human stain Patrick Kane, but the 22-year old kid is a leader.
2. Henrik Zetterberg C Detroit Red Wings: Yeah, I'm a homer; sue me. Hank's going to be on the wrong side of 30 in October, but he's constantly undervalued for just how damn good he is. Even Red Wings fans have an issue with making sure he gets the recognition he deserves. Everybody knows he's going to be the next captain of the Red Wings and he'll have earned it. The guy is a leader and he's clutch. If you get the opportunity to build a team from scratch around him, then you do it and watch him shove your ageism right back down your throat.
3. Sidney Crosby C Pittsburgh Penguins: Look, Jimmy D was right. The kid can play hockey. There's been enough said about his maturity and his reputation as a whiner to last a lifetime, but I've seen him work and I believe his teammates when they say he's a great locker room presence. He's one of the most complete players in the game and while I never had the benefit of having handlers tell me how to act, he's more mature than I was at that age. Just try to imagine what Mike Babcock could mold him into.
4. Shea Weber D Nashville Predators: This guy is a monster. He's always a sleeper pick for the Norris until players on more stacked teams leave him statistically behind, but as far as pure ability as a defenseman, there are few that could be considered better all around. Factor in his toughness, his intangibles, and his ability to put a puck straight through today's goal netting and you've got a building block for a team.
5. Mike Richards C Philadelphia Flyers: I feel I don't get to see him play as often as I should, partially because I hate the Flyers with their moodle-haired Scott Hartnell and the kuckle-dragging Chris Pronger, but he's another young captain with a ton of skill who will do anything to help his team. Pierre McGuire would probably slap me in the thigh (because it's at his eye level) after seeing me put him this low on the list and I might even deserve it. He makes everybody around him better.
6. Alexander Ovechkin LW Washington Capitals: Maxim Talbot might not think too highly of him, but I do. For all the talk about what his game might lack, there's even more to be said about what he can bring to the ice. On skill alone, he's the best forward in the game. If you're building a team and worrying about defense, you get Ovechkin first and a defender second. I do worry about his attitude and whether he would fit in a more rigid system than Bruce Boudreau runs around him in Washington, but for all the potential upside you're getting for this guy, he's well worth any risk.
7. Ryan Miller G Buffalo Sabres: The hero goalie of the olympics and the best goaltender in the NHL. Miller's not higher on this list just because I have a bias against building a team goaltender-first. If there were some magical statistic that let you know exactly how much of a team's wins were attributable to a single player, I'm not sure you'd find a higher-scoring player by that measure than Ryan Miller. He also has the magical ability to look younger than his brother Drew, despite being born four years earlier.
8. Joe Thornton C San Jose Sharks: Among this list, Joe Thornton is the worst about the way he acts when things don't go his way (because he doesn't have his youth to use as an excuse for this). I've seen that hurt his team when things weren't going well. I've also seen that same drive help his team immensely when his teammates weren't being anchors and his goalie wasn't hemorrhaging pucks. I don't want to completely take the blame for any of the Sharks' famous choke jobs off his shoulders, but he's a competitor, a leader, and a guy who makes you better.
9. Pavel Datsyuk C Detroit Red Wings: If you're building a team around him, the language barrier might be an issue, but he'll definitely make you laugh with what grasp of English he does have. Besides, the way he speaks on the ice is louder and clearer than anybody. Put simply, if you're a player who can watch the way Datsyuk plays every shift and not be motivated to go out and do everything a little better, then you're not long for this league. He makes fully grown men look foolish and guys twice his size look weak. After so long of marveling at his skills, you're left with little else to do than chuckle when he steals the puck off a guy's stick, passes it to himself off the side boards, and starts a rush up ice.
10. Rick Nash RW Columbus Blue Jackets: The ultimate overlooked forward. Rick Nash murders the Red Wings*. He was very good for team Canada in the Olympics, where he got a chance to play with some good centers. His combination of size and soft hands, as well as his maturity as a player are a rare combination. His stats have been hindered by playing on relatively weak Blue Jackets squads and under defensive-minded Ken Hitchcock for so long, but he's excelled at his role. I'd love to have him on my team and you're friggin' crazy if you disagree.
(*regular season only)
So there you have it. My list of the ten players around which I'd build a team if given the chance. Agree, disagree, have disparaging things to say about my mother? I'd love to hear it!
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Thornton
His struggles in the playoffs are well-documented. I have nothing against the guy personally, but I’ve never seen anything from him that screams “leader” to me. I won’t dispute that he puts up some great numbers in the regular season and can help carry a team to the playoffs. But, it’s winning a Cup that matters, and Thornton hasn’t even been close.
For me, a guy I would put on the list would be Duncan Keith. He’s a defenseman who can play 25+ minutes a night against the other team’s top forwards and score. He’s still fairly young. Let’s face it; there aren’t a lot of defenseman with his overall abilities out there, so a guy like Keith would be great to build a team around. I know a lot of people believe that he is just part of a great pair with Seabrook; but later in the season they were split up, and Keith’s play stayed at the same level. The guy lost 7 teeth in a game and kept on playing. I liked the inclusion of Weber, but I think Keith could have made the list as well. I hate me some Hawks something fierce, but I do like Keith (and Toews as well).
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Don’t tell anybody, but I couldn’t bring myself to put two Blackhawks on the list.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Patrick Kane is pretty damn good too, even if I don’t want to admit it. Watching him for Team USA was pretty incredible.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand. Your secret is safe with me. It’s just a good thing you put Toews first over Zetterberg so that people wouldn’t think that a Red Wing blog writer was a first-rate homer.
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by Amerinadian on Jul 29, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
What’s your time frame? Because if I were building a team, presumably for years down the road, I don’t think I’d even consider anyone past their mid twenties. I’d much rather have a Doughty or Keith than a Thornton, for example.
Time frame is for the upcoming season. I could see an argument for Doughty over Thornton, but I wouldn’t put him above anybody else on the list, especially not Zetterberg or Datsyuk, who are both past their mid twenties.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
We’ve only really had 1 season to see Doughty’s skill, and to be honest, he wasn’t doing much pre-Olympics. But playing with the best players in the world certainly showcased how good he can be, and he rode that confidence to a great finish to the season. But I agree with JJ – I just don’t see him on the list yet. If he can do that for a whole season, then he moves up.
"I really like the guys who go for the win in overtime" - HNIC's own Harry Neale
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by Amerinadian on Jul 29, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously it’s a pretty basic look at things, but Doughty’s points per game and plus-minus per game were better before the Olympic break. The goal scoring went way up after, but his shooting percentage was at an unsustainable level during that stretch.
Like I said over at Japer’s Rink, I want to see another great year out of Doughty. He has fantastic potential, but I just don’t know if he’s the guy around whom I build an entire team at this point.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm glad Devellano is honest
Last thing I would want is a homer running the team who lives in a fantasy world. Plus, while we may hate dislike Crosby, no one can deny his skill.
Detroit sports fans had that with Millen and we see how well that turned out.
My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters
I just realized something.
Where’s Mike Green? He is a mutliple-nominated Norris Trophy candidate? He can score more than some forwards. He’s a great actor (see: Geico commercials). He’s everything we want in an NHL defenseman (and by everyone, I mean NHL marketing people).
For shame.
"I really like the guys who go for the win in overtime" - HNIC's own Harry Neale
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Details, details
Pfft, you mean you’re one of those people who actually want your defensemen to play defense?
"I really like the guys who go for the win in overtime" - HNIC's own Harry Neale
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I feel like
Green gets knocked a bit too much on his defense. He did play over 2 minutes per game shorthanded this past season. And had a brilliant plus minus (+39). He gets asked by the coach to pinch in so often, and be a fourth forward in a lot of situations.
For comparison
Lidstrom had about the same amount of even strength TOI as Green, and had only about 40 seconds more of PK time per game.
In terms of +/-. every single player on that team had a great number. In fact, I think only 1 or 2 guys actually were a minus, and that is owed to the overall quality of the team. Plus, no one disputes how good Green is offensively, so the number of points he puts up even strength combined with just being on the ice with Ovechkin will boost that number.
I’m not sure that PK time by itself is a great indicator of how good he is defensively. Figure that each team gets 3-4 penalties on average per game. Also figure that on the Caps, beyond Green, Poti and Schultz, there was really no guy good enough to play on the PK, he kind of gets on there by default.
He’s not the worst defenseman in terms of his defense, but for a Norris-nominated guy, I think he should be better than he is. He gets recognized purely because he can score.
"I really like the guys who go for the win in overtime" - HNIC's own Harry Neale
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I have trouble figuring out how much Mike Green is “bad at defense” and how much Mike Green is not asked to be “good at defense” for his team’s system. I will simply say that I don’t think he’s deserved the Norris trophy either of the last two seasons and am glad that he hasn’t won it.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
If you call his acting in the Geico commercials great,
Then I have a bunch of Robert Pattinson movies for you to watch.
My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters
I loved him in one of those Twilight movies (which I’ve never seen).
Sadly, Green was better than Boudreau (point at his watch and then pointing off the ice) – even I didn’t believe that.
"I really like the guys who go for the win in overtime" - HNIC's own Harry Neale
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I would leave Thornton out, put Crosby at number 1 (gross), put Z a little lower, and Ovie a bit higher.
Miller might go lower in my book too, he’s very good. Don’t get me wrong. But he’s only had one really stellar season so far, in fact only been over .920 sv% once.
Maybe Parise to replace Thornton on this list?
I think Crosby is still a bit overrated. Watching the team play it seems the team lives and dies with Malkin not Crosby.
"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-
I would disagree. Crosby is an incredible player, he’s just a bit of diver/whiner and that’s why he’s given the cold shoulder. He’s matured drastically as a playmaker and has become an elite scorer, when he’s supposed to be a passer.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Can you put the Sedin twins on as one player?
I feel like where one goes, the other goes as well.
My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
Me in 140 characters
I defended Henrik’s Hart Trophy victory on the premise that he proved that he’s capable of being awesome without his twin, yet I left him off of this list. I’ve probably done him a disservice, but I can’t really say he belongs here.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Crosby is most definitely overrated. A ‘complete player’? Give me a break. He’s a walking case for the NHL inflating stats to promote who they please. I swear, he could get an assist from the bench. Furthermore, if he played in defensive-minded conference (hint: it’s the opposite of ‘East’), his production wouldn’t be near what it appears to be. He isn’t even the best player on his team (Malkin), and really, really lacks that ability to take over a game or put his team on his back for any length of time. I hate him more than I ever hated any of the Avalanche players back when that rivalry mattered, and it has nothing to do with his ‘skill’.
I’m sorry, but Jimmy D was wrong, and JJ is wrong for even putting him on this list. Most of the rest of the list is suspect as well:
-Datsyuk at 9?!?! Despite what the idiot talking heads might say, he is most definitely the most complete player in the league (and one of the most complete players ever), bar-none. You’d be stupid not to build a team around him; it’s literally getting two very talented players in one.
-Toews? Why? There’s a reason he wasn’t a Hart finalist, and I don’t think I need to elaborate. He won the Smythe for…? I think he had something like 1 point in the finals. Buffy had a better case for taking it. And if I hear one more comparison of him to Yzerman, I’m going to go postal. That is the epitome of blasphemy.
-Weber? Sure, why not. But you completely omit the greatest defenseman of all time, and the captain of the team this blog is centered around? Don’t tell me it’s because of his age, either, because you put Thornton on there, and he barely makes a top 30 list of this nature at this stage of his career.
-Overchkin at 6? He’s a guy who you can basically pencil in for 50 goals before the season even starts, he can and will hit anyone, and his shot-out-of-a-cannon style brings fans in night after night by itself. But yeah, Mike Richards is surely a better choice than him. All I can say is, ‘wow’.
Lidstrom’s 40 years is significantly higher than Thornton’s 31.
Toews won the Conn Smythe for how dominant he was in the first three rounds. I think that Briere could have easily won it, but the trophy is not for the MVP of the finals, but rather for the MVP of the playoffs. Under those criteria, there were two people that could have won it, Toews or Briere. Also, I haven’t compared Toews to Yzerman here. Of all of the young captains in the league though, I think he’s got the best shot to be the closest. That is way too far off to say with any certainty though.
Ovechkin puts goals in the net and fans in the stand. From a business standpoint, i should take him first. From a wanting my team to win standpoint, Richards has gone farther with less talent. That says something. Hockey is not an individual sport and I want guys who make everybody else around them better. Ovechkin does it, Richards does it better.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn’t accusing you on comparing Toes to Stevie Y, but I have heard it from others.
the trophy is not for the MVP of the finals, but rather for the MVP of the playoffs
True, but being all but invisible in the Finals gets you the trophy? I really, really though they were going to go the route of giving it to the winning goalie this year, because of how no one else really stepped up in key moments consistently.
Richards has gone farther with less talent
Meh, so have a lot of guys. I don’t think there’s any conceivable way he’s a better centerpiece than Ovy.
I want guys who make everybody else around them better. Ovechkin does it, Richards does it better.
He may not be the greatest passer in the world, I really don’t think Richards is noteworth at all in that area either, but playing in a such a way that forces the other team to watch you at all times? That certainly frees up other guys and at least allows them a chance to be better, and no one does it like Ovechkin.
Making other guys around you better isn’t solely about passing. It’s the same on the bit that I wrote about Datsyuk. These are guys that go balls-out every shift and do some incredible things that motivate their teammates to work harder. From what Scotty Bowman and Mike Babcock have said, nothing motivates guys like watching a forward do whatever it takes in his own defensive zone to retrieve the puck.
Ovechkin does work hard on his shifts and he does do a lot to motivate his teammates, but by virtue of being the forward in the league who consistently takes the longest shifts, there are times that he has to loaf (like when he’s in the defensive zone). These are times that take away from team momentum.
If you honestly think that Toews was “all but invisible” in the Finals, then you were only looking at the scoresheet.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe, if...
Crosby wasn’t such a little b*tch. Sure he’s got talent but luckily it takes more than talent to be a great all around player. I’d take Stamkos or Ovie, any day over him. For me, it’s all about heart, which Crosby can’t seem to express without a tissue. He’s one of those guys you just want to hit… not for any particular reason.
A good way to judge a player on being an all-around good player is… ask yourself if they could play for Detroit and succeed? All rivalries aside, go back 2-3 years… he still would never fit. It may be a bit of a homer-way of looking at things but rings true none the less.
You gotta have more than talent to be successful wearing the winged wheel, you gotta have CLASS. Which Sindy has none of, hence never being the player some think he is.
Needs to take some notes from Stevey Y… now that’s a CAPTAIN.
STAND TALL, FLY STRAIGHT, USA ALL THE WAY!
by DetroitALLtheWay09 on Jul 29, 2010 2:53 PM CDT reply actions
Look, I hate Crosby as much as the next guy, but if we’re talking about building a team that is going to win, then Crosby has to be considered as the nucleus you start with. As much as I love guys with heart, you’re not going to win a Stanley Cup with a bunch of Kris Drapers and Dallas Drakes as your stars.
Crosby is on a talent level that few players in the NHL can get to. Whether you like the way he composes himself on or off the ice is irrelevant; on the ice, he can score goals, he’s getting better at faceoffs, he’s trying to get better defensively, and he can almost singlehandedly carry a team in a playoff series (see: 2010 vs Ottawa).
Let’s take off the homer glasses for a second and realize that for a long time, we had Sergei Federov, who wasn’t exactly Mr Congeniality. Between his loafing it on the ice, the holdout in ‘98 , and his finally bolting for more money, he didn’t personify CLASS all the time. But he was a hell of a talent, and was a giant reason why the Wings won Cups. If we’re going to look at this even remotely objectively (which JJ did), then you’d see that Crosby is a guy you build a team around.
I’ll say this: if you ask any neutral person out there to make the same list, there’s no way that Zetterberg is named ahead of Crosby. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, but the perception around the rest of the league is that Crosby is a building block. Sometimes it’s ok to take the red and white glasses off and look at the league as a hockey fan, not just as a Red Wing fan (even on a Red Wing blog).
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All true..
But I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say, which is probably my fault. Basically with the amount of talent out there today, you could build a winning team any day without Crosby, that could beat Crosby’s team any day. For example, I also happen to be a Lightning fan and we are going through a rebuilding process down here ourselves. In the next few years you could see a Penguin/Bolt play-off match up. And if Yzerman continues doing the great job he has been, could very well beat those Pens and their mighty Crosby.
Give me Stammer over Crosby any day. Time will tell…
STAND TALL, FLY STRAIGHT, USA ALL THE WAY!
by DetroitALLtheWay09 on Jul 29, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok...
Well I think it is obvious that a team with Crosby isn’t going to win automatically. But I think if you had to choose one player, who better than Crosby? I dislike him intensely, but it doesn’t change the fact that he’s a serious franchise player. OF COURSE teams will beat Crosby’s team. No one thinks he’s going to win the Cup every single year. You can’t do that with ANY one player. You have to build around them.
True
Not saying he shouldn’t be on the list, just not that high and that I wouldn’t pick him. After this past year, I would have to agree with Toews at number 1 for sure. I’d have Lidstrom on there. Ovie would be a bit higher. And Stamkos would be on there for sure, as long as he picks up a bit of size, expect more great things from him. Training with Gary Roberts over the summer should help with that.
Goalies help a lot as well, especially for building a team. …But that’s another post.
STAND TALL, FLY STRAIGHT, USA ALL THE WAY!
by DetroitALLtheWay09 on Jul 29, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Here’s a legitimate question: would you really take Lidstrom right now to build a team around? He’s 40, and coming off a down year. I love him to pieces, but as of today, I’m not using him as THE first piece in building my team.
Stamkos needs another year before he’s on this list. There’s no question he’s talented, but I need to see more out of him before he ends up on the list. But he would be in top 15 if I expanded my list.
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by Amerinadian on Jul 29, 2010 5:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I figured someone might say something about that. Was going to put an asterick about “depending on age” or if that counted towards the list.
STAND TALL, FLY STRAIGHT, USA ALL THE WAY!
by DetroitALLtheWay09 on Jul 29, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Clearly, you don’t hate Crosby as much as the next guy.
As much as I love guys with heart, you’re not going to win a Stanley Cup with a bunch of Kris Drapers and Dallas Drakes as your stars.
The guy you’ve mentioned are good examples of guys with tons of heart but not as much talent, I’ll agree there. However, you know as well as I do that there are guys with heart and talent. Crosby has no heart. He’s had everything given to him since he was 14, because of his apparent talent. No one can deny that he showed he had talent in Juniors against other 17-year-olds, but in the NHL, he’s only proven he has talent to win alongside other talented players. On Pittsburgh, he’s surrounded by other young talent, thanks to the Penguins picking inside the top 5 in the Draft for so many years, and on Team Canada because it’s a dream team. He’s never, and never will in my opinion, shown that he can be the clear leader/biggest piece of a winning team.
Whether you like the way he composes himself on or off the ice is irrelevant
You’re right, which is why I didn’t base my opinion on that alone.
he’s getting better at faceoffs, he’s trying to get better defensively, and he can almost singlehandedly carry a team in a playoff series (see: 2010 vs Ottawa).
Am I supposed to feel sorry for him? Give him some slack? He’s a damn center, he should already be good at faceoffs if he’s such an elite player. Same goes for defense. If he can’t hack it in those areas, move him to the wing like Ovechkin or Kovalchuck play. Any guy who dives in an effort to cash in on the status the league has handed him or who is constantly loafing it on the backcheck is useless to me, and that goes for anyone, Penguin or not. 2010 v. Ottawa? They suck, and Pittsburgh let them win two games in that series. What’s that? Crosby had a bunch of random assists? WTF else is new. He did not carry his team past a completely mismatched opponent, nor did he need to.
Sergei Fedorov
I’m really confused as to why you even mentioned him. He was good, but was never the sole reason for the Wings winning. However, when I watched him play, there were a lot of times when he did stuff that made me say, ‘wow, he’s the only guy in the league doing that that well’. Crosby has talent, but he will never do anything that has fans collective jaws on the floor like other guys in the league can. Try and name one if you can, I’ll wait. And no, random no-look passes are not valid.
if you ask any neutral person out there to make the same list, there’s no way that Zetterberg is named ahead of Crosby.
Except there is literally no way for anyone to be neutral on the subject. No one is marketed as hard as Crosby is. There are more than a few whole franchises that get less exposure. I’ll say this: Zetterberg has played a different role than Crosby in his career, but I’d say he has just as much scoring touch as The Chosen One™, and blows him away as far as defensive ability goes, and that’s as objective as I get. From there, the decision is easy.
the perception around the rest of the league is that Crosby is a building block
Excuse my french, but fuck the perception. I’ve been watching and playing hockey for over 20 years, and he is so far from a building block that it’s not even funny.
He’s a damn center, he should already be good at faceoffs if he’s such an elite player. Same goes for defense. If he can’t hack it in those areas, move him to the wing like Ovechkin or Kovalchuck play.
Crosby isn’t just getting better at faceoffs, he’s become one of the league’s best faceoff men. He also doesn’t loaf on the backcheck.
…ok, well yeah he did kinda do that in the Olympics, but he doesn’t when he’s playing for the Penguins. But, before meeting up with the Wings and Zetterberg (who I put ahead of Crosby on this list), he had two very good playoff years going. In the season that Detroit beat Pittsburgh, Crosby would have undoubtedly won the Conn Smythe if the Penguins had won (barring some very good play by Hossa in those games or outright miraculous play by anybody else on that team).
but he will never do anything that has fans collective jaws on the floor like other guys in the league can. Try and name one if you can, I’ll wait. And no, random no-look passes are not valid.
Why are random no-look passes not valid reasons to say “wow”? I’ve seen him complete dozens of them and they were impressive. Most of the time, I was busy saying “shit” instead, but it comes from the same place.
he’s only proven he has talent to win alongside other talented players
Nobody in the NHL can say that they’ve been a proven winner by themselves without being surrounded by other talented players. Name me one guy in the league who’s considered a “winner” by any standard who hasn’t had at least one other all-star caliber player on his team? If you’re going to say this about Crosby, you have to say it about Datsyuk, Zetterberg, or Lidstrom.
Damn, this whole post is making me sick. I don’t like the attention he gets and I don’t always like how he composes himself, but I absolutely won’t try to deny that the kid is incredibly skilled and has a very good drive to win.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Crosby doesn't do anything to make your jaw drop?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw5KMb7o6QU
If none of those goals make you say “WOW”, then you are obviously blinded by your dislike of the guy. I hate Crosby, but numbers 1-4 of this list are intense!!!!
And to the fact that he should be good at faceoffs just because he’s a center…wouldn’t that mean that EVERY center has to be brilliant at face offs? It’s just not practical. Everyone would have a 50% on face offs if your expectation was correct. Check out some top centers FO%, not all of them are great. Malkin, Spezza, Stasny, Getzlaf all have less than stellar FO%, but I think most coaches would like to have them on their teams. Maybe not Spezza…LOL!
by plopperrawr on Jul 29, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m not going to go point by point with this, because I think your fandom is clearly overshadowing your perception of Crosby (which is fine). Like I said, I’m not a fan of Crosby’s, and I don’t want to spend the next 3 days defending him, because I still haven’t washed off the feeling from yesterday’s discussion. But this will be the last I say about this:
If you truly believe that Crosby is not one of the top 5 players in the NHL around which you can build a team, then I strongly question your hockey knowledge. If you don’t like him or the way he is forced on us, fine. But if you can’t recognize that he has talent and skills that 98% of the NHL doesn’t have, then I suggest you pay for Center Ice and actually watch a Penguins game. Take off the red and white glasses and tell me that Crosby isn’t the best player on the ice.
"I really like the guys who go for the win in overtime" - HNIC's own Harry Neale
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I happen to think that under the tutelage of guys like Babcock, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Draper, and the like that he wouldn’t be considered such a classless b*tch by Wings fans. He was dropped very young into a captaincy in Pittsburgh and I think he’s handled himself fairly well, all things considered.
I think that, had he been drafted to the Wings, there’s a very strong likelihood that he would have succeeded in the winged wheel.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't Forget
He’s also been hyped (at least up in Canada) since he was 14. He never asked to be the “Face of the NHL”, and even at 18 when he was drafted he was seen as some sort of messiah for whoever got him. That’s a lot for a kid that young to take in, and overall, he’s a fairly well-adjusted individual. Yes, some of the things he’s said have been a little immature, and some of his actions on the ice are clearly due to youthful frustration. But you never hear about him beating up a cab driver or getting obviously drunk in public, or doing drugs, or anything else illegal. He’s got a clean-cut image, which is great from a marketing standpoint, and he’s got talent, which is great from a hockey standpoint.
"I really like the guys who go for the win in overtime" - HNIC's own Harry Neale
Like to keep your communication short and to the point? Follow me on Twitter
Clearing up a misconception
I wasn’t only not clear earlier, but said it in a downright dumbass manner.
When I said that the list is for the upcoming year, I meant that I’m not considering going back in time to anybody’s “prime” years, but that the intent is to build a squad from scratch that can be successful for multiple years.
I do not feel as though 29, 30, or 31 are too old to be a guy that you can build a team around. In today’s capped world, you may not get more than 5 years and I’m going with guys I know have experience. I’m still taking Datsyuk and Zetterberg over Stamkos, Tavares, or any other of the young up-and-comers out there. Those two flat-out know how to win and I’m willing to take my chances that their bodies don’t hold up against the chances that a younger, unproven guy won’t pan out or will undergo some freak injury.
Like I said earlier, I will absolutely accept arguments for replacing Thornton.
Sorry for the confusion.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 6:09 PM CDT reply actions
Zach Parise.
But I’m extremely biased. :)
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Hey
Someone agrees with my Parise bit!!! I’d rather have him than Thornton…even though they’re different positions.
by plopperrawr on Jul 29, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I’d take Sidney Crosby over Jonathan Toews in a heartbeat. Toews doesn’t hold a candle to what Crosby can do. I can’t stand the Penguins and am sick of all the Crosby hype, but he’s the best player in the league. He went from being pretty much just a setup guy to a 50 goal scorer because he realized he doesn’t have anyone with talent to give the puck to. Toews is a leader and an over average offense talent. He has not blossomed into an offensive superstar yet. In his 3 years, he has failed to even get 70 points in a season, so how could you put him over Crosby? Crosby has four 100 point seasons in five years, with a 72 point season where he played only 53 games (111 point 82 game pace).
Toews is a great player, but at this point he is a little overrated. Come back when he’s put up more than 70 points in a season… preferably when it’s more like 90 points.
Toews doesn’t have the offensive upside than Crosby, but he’s significantly better than Crosby in the defensive end, can play PP or PK, and takes fewer penalties.
Crosby also has his offensive milestones in the Conference that’s just now learning to play defense, while Toews has to play half of his games against 6 of the 8 best defensive teams in the league. I won’t say that this is enough to make up completely for more than a 40 point difference in production, but it I think it would close the gap enough so that the other things that Toews does better than Crosby would be more worth building a team around.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 30, 2010 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Nice article JJ.
I don’t watch the Wings nearly as often as any of the people on here do, but it always seemed to me in the limited time I saw them that Zetterberg is better than Datsyuk. The difference isn’t that much, but he’s putting up comparable numbers in every aspect of the game without the quality of teammates Datsyuk has.
I do disagree, however, about Toews. I’m not saying he doesn’t have a “do whatever it takes to help my stacked team win, even if it hurts my numbers” attitude, but he’s not playing the toughest minutes around. His Corsi QoT numbers are off the charts (he was actually number 1 in the league out of about 600 players), so he’s getting a ton of help. He also sees a really favorable zone start, and when you look at where he finishes, it’s not stellar. He also sees a ton of pp time against some of the easier PK units, which help him bulk up his point totals. And while he does kill penalties, he’s not on the blackhawks’ first unit.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great player, but he’s not laboring under the circumstances that Paul Stastny or Mikko Koivu are.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com

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