"Do we want to be a good team or not?" Yes. Yes you do.
by Amerinadian on Nov 18, 2011 11:02 AM CST
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PrintIt's the morning after a west coast road game for the Red Wings, and we're all a little more bleary-eyed and cranky this morning because the Wings lost their 2456th road game in a row. Another loss to the Sharks stings, but the idea that the Wings have this magical hold on the Sharks is gone. The Wings are the Sharks bitch now, whether we like it or not.
Anger and frustration are starting to seep into the fanbase, and with good reason. I wrote last night that there are a lot of problems with this team, most notably their inability to score goals with any kind of consistency. Through 17 games, the bright spots have been few and far between, outweighed by the issues that have prevented this team from rocketing out to the start that we've become accustomed to in the past.
Last night's loss may not have been the final straw, but the camel's legs are shaking and he's looking a little unsteady. Any more piling on and that may be it for a lot of people.
After the game last night, Mike Babcock didn't exactly tear the paint off the walls, but the tone of his presser was definitely different. No longer was it "we've got to keep working and plug away and things will work themselves out and I like gum". Here's what Uncle Mike had to say about the team:
We're at the point we got to make a decision what kind of team we want to be and how hard we want to pay for 60 minutes and get this looked after, because you can't let this snowball on you. You got to win on the road and you got to win at home.
Do we want to be a good team or not? Life just doesn't go on for you. You make a decision that it's going to go good for you. You decide for yourself that you're going to be successful. You decide for yourself that you're going to make a difference. You decide for yourself that you're going to have a good career.
No one just gives you this stuff. Other teams are trying, too. So we got to make decisions.
I'm no psychology major, but if that's not a direct challenge to his team I don't know what is.
Here's the thing, Mike: this all starts with you. You're the coach. You should be the one deciding what kind of team you want to be, and you should get the players to buy into your system. If they don't, then they don't play. It's pretty simple.
You got a player that you think isn't trying hard enough? Sit him down. I don't care if his name is Fabian Brunnstrom or Henrik Zetterberg; no one should be immune from the Leino Lounge on this team. Not right now. Now is not the time for coddling the players and stroking egos. Now's the time to kick some ass and fire up the team.
If we're questioning what kind of team the Wings are going to be, then I got news for you Mike; you're in trouble. Because that means either the system you've put in place isn't working, or the players have tuned you out.
If it's the former (which I don't believe it is), then it's just a matter of execution. I say it's not likely the system that is the problem because too many good teams have adapted it. The Blackhawks and Sharks are blatant rip-off artists of the type of puck possession game the Wings play, and the Canucks play almost a similar style. There might be tweaks, but generally this gameplan will make the Wings successful.
So does that mean the players have tuned Babcock out? That sure seems to be the prevailing thought, and that's going to be tougher to get back. Now is the time where you either show that you're the coach we think you are, the guy who can lead this team back to the promised land, or we find that you're simply a guy who inherited a great team and you've lost the room.
Because you've got the talent. It's there in that room. Players like Nicklas Lidstrom and Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg didn't suddenly become bad. Jimmy Howard should be going to the All-Star Game. The roster that takes to the ice each and every night should be enough to compete with any team in the NHL.
The problem with this team is mental, not physical. I respect that they want to spout all the cliches about "remaining positive" and continuing to "work hard" and taking it "one game at a time" and "getting ready for our next opponent" so that the Wings can "get back on track". Taking the wins and losses with the same business-like approach is nice, because you can stay grounded during the highs and not want to start cutting yourself during the lows. But every team should have a breaking point, and the Wings should be approaching theirs.
So Wings, it's time to answer Babcock's question: what kind of team do you want to be? Do you want to be the team we've seen in 8 losses this year? The team that can't score, makes mistakes that end up in their net, and looks like they can't beat a pee wee team? Or the team we've seen in 9 wins? Dominant, unyielding, talented. Oh, and you might want to make up your minds pretty quickly: Thanksgiving is approaching, and Ken Holland thinks that this is a pretty important date.
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very well put
And I can’t wait to see them answer this question.
by chez_bazaldo on Nov 18, 2011 11:50 AM CST via mobile reply actions
TPL
just covered this subject as well. It seems it’s on a lot of people’s minds given the recent quotes from him overnight. We’ll see. I’m with them no matter what… but it’s damn more entertaining to see that winning team play than the losing/deflated one.
Get your Al the Octopus
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
by Josh Howard on Nov 18, 2011 12:35 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
AGREED
Get your Al the Octopus
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
by Josh Howard on Nov 18, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
We are the Redwings!!
Howard is good for 2 goals or less this year. Looking at the forwards you cant deny their good for 3+ goals on any given night.
Simple math dictates we should win every game unless something is wrong… Something is wrong. your two biggest stars went cold at the same time. We’ve never been in this position before because thats never happened before at the same time…
Two good things are 1- cold streaks dont usually last forever. 2 – we are the Redwings.
by Splints on Nov 18, 2011 1:02 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions 7 recs
Don't forget the great goal drought of 2011
EVERYONE went cold. At least we got 2 goals last night and at least we know that Babs is getting upset about all this. He likes consistency.
Get your Al the Octopus
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
I’m with you.
This next stretch of games will truly define what this Wings team is about and whether they’re good enough to win a Cup. Last night’s comments from Babcock are the first shot across the bow of the players. The comment about playing hard and deciding whether people want to have good careers is a direct challenge to some of the players.
I’m not in full-blown panic mode quite yet, but the current make-up of this team is not exactly inspiring me with confidence. Because while I’ve seen 9 pretty awesome wins, I’ve also seen 8 crushing losses, and I’m still not sure which team is which at the moment.
I’ll say this: my confidence level in the Wings being able to beat the good teams in the NHL has never been lower. The talent is there to compete with those teams, but the mentality of the Wings seems too fragile at the moment.
by Amerinadian on Nov 18, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Jekyll and Hyde
The names have crossed my mind a few times so far this year. The team in the first 19:49 of the first period last night was a much different team from the one that got stomped the rest of the game. A goal seems to have the ability to completely deflate this team, which is something that has rarely happened in the past. I know a shorty in the last 11 seconds of a period is tough to take, but come back out and redouble your efforts and make them pay. Simple as that. Work hard, shoot the puck, play staunch D, limit turnovers. The forecheck was awesome in the first period.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
Agreed
And that’s my issue: which one is the real Wings team?
Simply saying “they’re the Red Wings” isn’t good enough for me anymore. I have faith that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are going to regress back up to the mean because they’re playing so far below their career averages, but at this point I need to see it. 5-7 games is a slump; 17 is worrying.
Again, I’m not trying to be a Negative Nancy here. I truly believe this team pulls its head out of its ass and gets back on track, because the talent is there.
Like you, I look at the first 19:48 of the first period last night and think “that team can beat anyone”. Then I see the break down on the Sharks’ first goal, and my immediate thought is “they’re in deep trouble”. That’s how you know the issue is in the players’ minds.
by Amerinadian on Nov 18, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
I don’t think you’re negative at all, just realistic. I also think the turn-around will come, but you don’t want to finally turn around after you’ve played yourself into a hole too deep to get out of. I would be less disheartened if they were blowing leads and then losing in OT, instead of losing outright in regulation. Then at least they get a point! The shorty, combined with the lack of puck luck after all of that first period work…those things seem to easily deflate them. They need a friggin’ life coach or some crap, perhaps. Deepak Chopra, chakra alignment, accupuncture. Whatever. Just get it done and get back to playing Red Wings hockey, boys! ;)
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
Someone call for a Guru???
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Get your Al the Octopus
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
by Josh Howard on Nov 18, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I could write a whole post about stuff that has transpired in the NHL that has allowed the Wings to regress back to the pack while other teams caught up, but one of the biggest things is that the “mystique” around the Wings is gone.
The respect from the opponents is still there, but they don’t inspire the type of fear in opponents they used to.
But...
…does the parity or near-parity now extant in the league allow for that sort of fear and/or mystique that teams used to have? The salary cap sure has changed that, for one. Those two things are probably up near the top of your list, which surely is better-informed and more exhaustive than mine could be. I’d throw the lack of a Shanahan or Cam Neely-type guy in there. The Wings are all smallish or lazy and unintimidating, like Franzen. If someone could motivate that f**ker, he could be one of the top ten players in the game, no doubt in my urine-soaked mind.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
by WingsFool on Nov 18, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
does the parity or near-parity now extant in the league allow for that sort of fear and/or mystique that teams used to have?
As you allude to, the salary cap plays a part, as does the fact that all those teams that the Wings were beating up a few years ago all went and got themselves a bunch of good prospects while the Wings maintained the core of their roster.
Basically, the Wings kicked sand in the faces of all the wimps around the NHL, and now all the wimps have been bulking up to stand up to the bully, and even though the bully is still pretty tough, they picked on too many people to withstand the onslaught.
D... all of the above.
The type of player that is successful is changing. There is parity, now more than ever. I mean… look at who’s been leading the league. Tons of different things are happening right now and change is definitely in the air. BTW.. imagine if Franzen played as rough as Ovechkin does.
Get your Al the Octopus
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
Forget Ovechkin...
…I wish he’d just play as rough as Stamkos does!
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
I should actually say physical rather than rough I guess.
Get your Al the Octopus
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
.
I know what you mean. But 35-40 goals, 80 or so PIMs, that’s a level Franzen should be able to reach. Not that the PIMs are desirable, but they usually show a penchant to mix it up for your teammates, get them fired up, and crash the net and take the odd goalie interference penalty or what have you.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
I’d throw the lack of a Shanahan or Cam Neely-type guy in there.
I think it depends on the context of what those types of players bring to the table. If you’re looking for a physical power forward, I guess it would be nice to have someone like that, but that’s not the reason for the Wings’ struggles.
If you’re talking about from a leadership, make a speech or kick some ass in the dressing room context, then I agree that a player like that would be great just to light a fire under some guys that might be going through the motions to some extent.
.
Guys like that bring/brought a total package. They score, they crash the net, they play PP, they kill penalties, they inspire, they kick ass and stand up when needed. I don’t think it’s the reason for their struggles, either, but it would alleviate some of the pressure, maybe.
Maybe the biggest problem is that most of the Wings are the same: smallish European guys who skirt the outer perimeter and look to make the pretty pass. It’s starting to show, and teams know it—they push the Wings to the outside and just take the passing lanes away.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
.
I love those guys, but it’s like Ice Hockey for Nintendo: You can’t have a team of all skinny guys, or they get killed by the team that’s well-balanced. I saw the skinny guys getting killed by the Sharks’ fat guys last night. ;)
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
by WingsFool on Nov 18, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I saw the skinny guys getting killed by the Sharks’ fat guys last night. ;)
Wellwood doesn’t play for them anymore.
by Amerinadian on Nov 18, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Um, sure?
Honestly, I don’t necessarily think it’s a matter of the Wings being too small as it is they’re not executing. Taking away passing lanes is about positioning, not size. The Sharks didn’t dominate the Wings physically, and the Wings had no problems establishing a forecheck in the first when they were using their speed.
Speed beats size. At least, in hockey it does ;)
I know.
See below brain dropping(s). I’m having trouble putting my thoughts into words on this, and I wish we could have a few (too many) beers together so I could try to explain it better.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
And you're right.
I went on a little incoherent rant there about size and the like, chalk it up to frustration and looking to lay blame somewhere more tangible. While I do think a power forward type player can benefit any team, the Wings surely do not need one, as we have seen in their nine wins this year. They need to keep their heads screwed on straight and play their game. Shooting the puck and creating opportunities that help open the game up to the style they want to play is how they’ve won and will continue to win. Mental toughness, skill, and speed matter much more than size. Size doesn’t hurt, though, right? ;)
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
Rec for the NES Ice Hockey reference
I still have that game.
Let me add,
so that I don’t look like one of those “we need an enforcer” guys…. We just need someone who looks like they’re ready to take the torch, like we had with the young crop of Fedorov and Kozlov back in the day, then with Datsyuk and Zetterberg later on, then Nick taking the torch from Stevie. Do you guys see any of that right now? The only person I can see in that context is Kronwall, and he’s kind of hit or miss right now, to my chagrin. I really want him to become a hairy, wild-eyed beast and take the reins of this team. Aside from him (at times), nobody seems hungry enough, like has happened as each generation of Red Wings ages and starts to move on over the past twenty years.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
.
It’s almost as if the urgency to win another one before Nick retires is the 800 pound gorilla in the room, and sprinkle in a healthy pinch of getting easily dejected when things don’t go their way. Mental tantrums, if you will. I know it’s a team and a team effort, but sometimes somebody has to become a beast and lead the way. Nobody has done that during the losses, except maybe Miller, but you need your big name guys to lead, I think.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
by WingsFool on Nov 18, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s almost as if the urgency to win another one before Nick retires is the 800 pound gorilla in the room, and sprinkle in a healthy pinch of getting easily dejected when things don’t go their way.
I think this is probably a good deal of the problem. Some of the guys who have been here the longest besides TPH may be trying too hard and trying to do too much to win Nick his 5th cup.
Finally...
I said something that made some sense to somebody else. Or something.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
Think of past Wings teams
They were full of guys who would stand up in the locker room and say “unfuck yourselves, that SHG was shit to give up but we’re going to bring the same pressure and light that Finnish bitch up this period”
Guys like Malts, McCarty, Draper, Shanny..the heart of the team. Sure we have potential HoFers in Z and Pavel, but I don’t see them playing with much emotion or expressing it in the locker room. Generally they have been portrayed as “leading by example” but they haven’t done that either this season.
This might be bold, but next to Jimmah, Abdelkader has been our most “driven” player. He’s been good offensively, plays quality minutes, is our most physical player on most nights – and is happy to drop the gloves against an unhappy customer.
I'm guessing with that roster...
…that this is the usual early-season blahs that affects a lot of good teams.
I expect the Wings to be firing on all cylinders come playoff time.
I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. I still have champagne in my ears.
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My main grievance.
Their play for half of this young season has made me use foul language at a volume that has made my wife yell at me, and that’s never happened before. Do something about that, Uncle Mike! I want my wife and daughter in the basement cheering along with me, not hiding upstairs from the crazed, frothing-mad moron downstairs!
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
Why I watch games alone
not hiding upstairs from the crazed, frothing-mad moron downstairs
by SlapshotGoal on Nov 18, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh...
…and maybe Datsyuk and Zetterberg have to realize that floating around doing pretty highlight-reel things is not working right now, and you have to buck up, crash the net, and SHOOT! Shoot the damn puck. I yelled that at the TV screen at least a dozen times last night, and I don’t yell that without reason. Who was it, Zetterberg who tried to feather a nifty pass over to someone that was blocked by the d-man’s stick? There is too much of that crap going on. Hudler did it at least once, too. Maybe try looking like you’re going to pass, then shoot—catch the goalie off-guard.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
by WingsFool on Nov 18, 2011 1:12 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Can Babs just go ahead and tie the entire team together and make them do that drill from D2?
And then it’ll be hilarious when shitbox farts from the center of the mess.
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
by J_Stone on Nov 18, 2011 1:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I also hope that he burns an effigy of himself in a barrel.
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 18, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Can we have McClellan slash him in the knee during a game of 3-bar?
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
Zetterberg had a few good shifts near the end of the game.
Nothing else was good in that game though (besides Ericsson making like 2 good plays).
Zetterberg
I vote for referring to him as “Cheddarwurst” until he shows us something. Let’s be fair to Shitbox—he’s been as good as Cheddarwurst, so either we stop calling him Shitbox (which is not an option, imho) or we give him some company.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
Smith
He looked better than I thought he would…..that’s gotta count for something. Also, Filppula looks good every game. And, the PP worked this game. That’s nice. Not nice enough, but still nice.
Hey, is it just me, or is Franzen a “streaky player” because he takes shifts off? He looks like he’s dogging it about 75% of the time out there.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
2020
The year when Franzen’s contract is up. 3.9 million per year.
I’m no professional hockey player, but I probably wouldn’t be trying so hard if I was practically set for life. He’s a lazy bum who occassionally gets a thirst to play hockey, so he does for a game. Then he floats around for a dozen or more games until he gets that thirst again.
New entry system?
1st Period seemed to be a lot of dump and chase, which the Wings are not built for. Was this due to the change up in the offensive lines?
Possibly
The Sharks’ D was also standing up at the bluelines, so the Wings have to play dump and chase to get pucks past the defense and gain entry to the zone.
We’ve seen that quite a bit, with teams loading up the blueline and forcing the Wings to either chip the puck past and win races, or try and stickhandle through people, which is hard to do when players are at their best.
The 1st period was dominated by the Wings in San Jose.
One stupid play on the power play ruined an otherwise masterful period. Then it was progressively downhill. They may not be “built” for it (any team can do it, it’s not a skill thing, it’s an effort thing) but it was effective.
I hate Jonathon Ericsson.
I really think
not shooting, or shooting at the wrong time, are major factors. It’s easy to sit back and say these things from the comfort of my sofa, but guys like Hudler look to make the pretty pass first, and that’s predictable for other teams, too.
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
If Hudler started shooting before looking to pass, He would put up 20 goals before people realized what was happening. Then it would open up that pretty pass he likes to make.
Its almost like in football, when you don’t pass the ball enough the other team stacks the box looking for the run. We need to shoot to open up the pass. (Not sure if that is explained well, my brain is starting to go into weekend mode.)
I'm a Homer
My brain
understands your brain. Not sure if that’s a good thing for either of us! ;) I agree with you. Hudler’s a 25-goal scorer. And he works hard this year. Babs needs to drill it into his head: shoot, shoot, shoot!
Detroit needs a fighter like a fish needs a bicycle.
Less shitty slapshots, though please
Dudes a Czech, snipe for fucks sake
YAY brain understanding! haha its been a rough couple of hours. The 10:30 start time killed me last night, and is continuing to have adverse affects on my level of functioning.
I'm a Homer
Might sound simple but...
… I feel like they need to take the puck to the net. Aside from the blast from the point a lot of their goals this year are garbage goals (Franzen’s resulting from the nice Filppula move comes to mind). They’re staying outside way too much.
by loojay on Nov 18, 2011 5:00 PM CST via mobile reply actions
i happen to think they lack passion
i used to watch the wings in awe… like something magical could happen at any time (and often it would….hanks buzzer beater last year comes to mind), but something is wrong this year. i see fire in their eyes for short amounts of time then its gone. like they suddenly came down with amnesia and cant remember why they hate the sharks. maybe its complacency… i dont know. if things continue i can only see one outcome. big trades will be made.
now i know something is going to happen even if they turn this around and start being the team we all know they can be. Kenny Holland told Nick that he would spend to the cap if he came back and i fully expect him to make a move at some point this year. however, if this continues, its going to be a reactionary move instead of one to add that last piece to the puzzle. the piece that puts them over the edge.
maybe its simply time to mix things up. people keep mentioning the shanny trade and how we need something like that, and everyone wonders do we need another power forward? to me its not the type of player shanny was that is important here. it is the effect that trade had on the whole team at that time. Keith Primeau was supposed to be the guy… but after trying for so long they finally just mixed things up and it turned out to be just what the doctor ordered.
there rant over. sorry for such a long post lol.
Shan the Man was more than a power forward
He was the heart and soul of the team. He’d do anything to get a win for the Red and White.
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I believe in next year.
My biggest issue with Detroit's offense
The players almost unanimously try to make the perfect shot. What led to the 2nd goal against last night? Zetterberg winding up to take a slapper when a quick wrister would have been more effective. The puck was stolen, the forwards and 2nd d-man were in no position for the transition, and they were smoked in a 3-on-1. The shot doesn’t have to be perfect, it just needs to be on net and fast. The longer you wait, the more chance the defense can react and the goalie has time to set. Take the fucking shot and make things happen.
I hate Jonathon Ericsson.
I also think that’s why a lot of their shots get blocked.
They’re trying to get the most on it and place it in the perfect spot. D-men get their feet into the lanes to prevent that and instead of moving the puck six inches inside so they can get off a shot with slightly less power, they try to perfectly place it between the legs and it usually hits the shinpad instead.
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 19, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions
Detroit's magic is gone
Times are changing in the NHL and what once was is but now a memory. Gone are the days of the Wings taking the ice and making their opponents look silly trying to get the puck away from them. Gone are the days of the Wings having one of if not the best PP units in the league. Gone are also the days of the Wings PK being in the same lofty territory. Historically the Wings always had one or two guys who had difficulty motivating themselves to play at the high level needed and which they were capable of.
Watching the Wings this particular season has been maddening only due to the inconsistency of putting together games whereby EVERYONE played their hearts out for sixty minutes. Add into that the whole league getting better, and you have before you what we’ve been watching, cursing at the television about, and blogging about. Babcock’s right though…it’s time for this Wing’s team to decide their fate now. Either come together as the highly talented team they are and battle like crazy TOGETHER on the ice, or die as individuals in losing cause after losing cause. It’s their choice to make.
Funny thing though…I surely don’t recall crap like this happening when Scotty Bowman was coach. You either played at the level expected of you or you either sat for an undetermined amount of time or you were TRADED away, never to be seen again in the Winged Wheel organization. So my question for you Mr Babcock is this: when are you going to take the reins of this team and do what is best for the team? Are you going to actually sit people who you feel are not performing up to the necessary standard? Because I daresay if you do not, you will lose the team’s attention and respect if you haven’t already. The clock is ticking DRW’s, you’re nearly a quarter of the way through this season already. Your road record SUCKS. There’s something broken within the organization. Find it. Fix it. Do something!
"If we knew what the outcome would be it wouldn't be called hindsight."
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