Morning Skate: Game 4 - Do or Die
by JeffHancock41 on May 6, 2011 7:00 AM CDT
in Game Preview
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PrintThe NHL keeps telling us that "History Will Be Made." Well, if the Wings want to win this series, history truly will have to be made. Only three teams in NHL history have come back from a 3-0 deficit to win a playoff series. In fact, just last year the feat was accomplished when the Flyers came back to beat the Bruins. We almost saw it happen again this year in round one, when the Blackhawks forced the Canucks to a game 7, but fell short in overtime.
We've seen this script before. We've seen it with these two exact teams. Last year, down 3-0, the Wings came out firing behind The Mule and won 7-1. They fell short in game 5, losing the game 2-1 and ended their postseason run. Will 2011 be more of the same? We'll find out.
Puck drop is at 7p ET.
More after the jump.
The Expected Lineup
Johan Franzen -- Pavel Datsyuk -- Tomas Holmstrom
Todd Bertuzzi -- Henrik Zetterberg -- Danny Cleary
Jiri Hudler -- Valtteri Filppula -- Justin Abdelkade
Kris Draper -- Darren Helm -- Patrick Eaves
Nicklas Lidstrom -- Brad Stuart
Brian Rafalski -- Jonathan Ericsson
Niklas Kronwall -- Ruslan Salei
Jimmy Howard (starting)
Scratches: Jakub Kindl, Chris Osgood, Drew Miller and Mike Modano.
Aces: Brendan Smith, Tomas Tatar, Ilari Filppula, Jan Mursak, Derek Meech, Brian Lashoff, Doug Janik and Jordan Pearce
No the Red Wings won't be playing with 14 forwards in this game. I added everyone to the lineup who will potentially play in game 4. Hell, you might as well add Kindl to the lineup too. This team is down 3-0 and I have no idea if Babcock will completely shake things up. I wouldn't be shocked to see Modano in. I wouldn't be shocked to see Miller back in. I wouldn't be shocked to see absolutely no changes at all. Bottom line, regardless who plays, every player that hits the ice must put forth 100% effort on every single shift.
UPDATE: No lineup changes for tonight's game.
| SJ | HOW THEY MATCH UP (PLAYOFF EDITION) | DET |
| 3.11 (7th) | GOALS PER GAME | 3.29 (4th) |
| 2.78 (T-9th) | GOALS AGAINST PER GAME | 2.57 (5th) |
| 15.8 (10th) | POWER PLAY % | 25.9 (4th) |
| 77.8 (T-10th) | PENALTY KILL % | 69.7 (15th) |
| 3 tied with 4 goals | GOAL LEADER | 2 tied with 3 goals |
| 2 tied with 9 points |
POINTS LEADER | Pavel Datsyuk (9 points) |
Key to the Game: Everything. Be great in every area of the game (especially the PK). The Wings are on the brink of elimination. There is no reason to hold back now. Everything you've got for 60 minutes. Win every race. Win every puck battle. Shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. Forget you're in a huge hole and just play balls to the wall and don't leave any regrets on the ice.
Match-up to Watch: Nicklas Lidstrom vs. whomever he's covering. When you watch this game, watch The Perfect Human as close as possible. We have no idea the result of tonight's game and it could very well be Lidstrom's last in a Red Wings sweater. Regardless the outcome, enjoy what could be our last moments of Nick's greatness.
For Discussion: From Khan(!)..."0-10 in playoff series in which they have fallen behind 3-0. They have been swept in all but two of those series."
Bottom Line: Win. This. Game.
Let's Go Red Wings.
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Not around tonight
Rehearsal dinner time. Catching up late via slingbox and DVR. Hopefully I won’t be reduced to angry fast-forwarding.
by J.J. from Kansas on May 6, 2011 7:07 AM CDT reply actions
We had an awful breakfast one time
Ever since then, we’ve had to rehearse our meals.
That breakfast was… just horrible.
Everybody had egg on their face.
by J.J. from Kansas on May 6, 2011 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
It has to start early
Win the first shift, and then the shift after that. Then win the first period. The Wings have to know the Sharks remember last year and will not want to be embarrassed like that again.
Something I’d like to see from the Wings? A 2 goal lead. They haven’t led by more than a goal at any point in the series, and the Sharks have had an easy time of coming back.
Won't be around tonight
I am babysitting for a family whose parents are going to the game. I hope they know they will be paying me for flopping their kids in front of a tv and forcing them to watch hockey with me… Oh well. For the sake of the children, start your comeback tonight Wings!
Just one more game...
that’s all i want to see. I want to see a win so we can watch one more game.
Get your Al the Octopus for the playoffs
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
4 - 3 Wings, Pavel PotG
For those looking for a good omen…today is Bob Seger’s birthday.
I feel like a number, the number 4
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on May 6, 2011 8:28 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I'm out of pocket too
Will be in a FEMA ICS class from 6-9 tonight. Wonderful timing.
HOWEVAH…I am going to do everything within my power to sit in a back corner seat with my laptop that I can neither confirm nor deny may or may not have a feed on.
Don't Panic!
Damn Red Wings
No matter how hard you try to be pissed at them…I woke up this morning even more pissed that I couldn’t sit at home and watch the game.
Don't Panic!
Amen.
We may get pissed at them, but I still thoroughly enjoy watching them do their thing on the ice.
Get your Al the Octopus for the playoffs
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
Agreed.
No matter how pissed or heart broken I get, I’m always pumped and ready for the next game. It may take a day or two sometimes, but I still can’t wait until the next game. I think the Wings are like drugs in that way. Even after a bad batch or a horrible trip, I still can’t wait to get my next fix. No matter what happensd, I keep coming back for more and can’t get enough.
by SlapshotGoal on May 6, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mentioning Lidstrom retiering
I am going to admit that when that man hangs the sweater up I am going to openly weep.
You definitely won't be alone.
We may have some flood warnings from all the tears the Wing’s fans will shed. I can’t even think about it.
Screw it.
I’m breaking my own superstitions. When your team loses 3 games by 1 goal, twice in OT, superstitions are obviously not working. So, I predicted the game today.
7-1 Detroit, Franzen PotG.
I also shaved. I always avoided that on gamedays…but it doesn’t really matter much when your team is down 3-0 in a series and all but eliminated.
Go at it WIngs. I’ll keep watching until you’re done, whether it’s tonight or in June. But I won’t be optimistic until game 5 is a win. And that requires game 4 to be a win first. Insert game at a time cliche here
But what the hell, this series is playing out exactly like last year, why not another offensive explosion tonight from Franzen?
by tehGOALIE on May 6, 2011 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Well said my friend... well said!
Get your Al the Octopus for the playoffs
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
Recipe for Game 4 Win
No Stupid Penalties, No PPG Against
…and No Penalties within 2 shifts after we score a goal (I’m looking at you – Rafalski!!)
you forgot baking soda.
I think you covered them all. We can’t give these guys an inch today. The PK needs to be spot on and the PP needs to score every chance they get.
Get your Al the Octopus for the playoffs
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
I went out on a limb and said 3-0 Wings, PotG is Modano
I haven’t been doing the game guessing lately because I never had a good feel for what was going to happen. But I made one this time just because.
Modano's not playing
Just an FYI. He’s a healthy scratch again. No lineup changes tonight per Babcock.
Going to try and enjoy the game tonight
It will be hard but I figure there are a couple reasons I should give it my best shot:
1. This could be the last Red Wings hockey I get to see until September. That’s a long way away.
2. This could be Lidstrom’s last game in the NHL, or at the Joe. Either way, I wouldn’t want to miss it (even if it is from my living room).
3. If this game starts the greatest playoff comeback in Red Wings history, I’d hate myself for missing it.
by Big Z in Orlando on May 6, 2011 10:43 AM CDT reply actions
No Changes?!?!?!?!?!
Why would they not make any changes…this is win or golf course. I’m just going to throw this out there. How about make the swtich of Modano for Bert (will take away the stupid penalties) and Miller for Abdelkader.
These would be my lines…thoughts?
Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Hudler-Zetterberg-Cleary
Modano-Filppula-Helm
MIller-Draper-Eaves
I would keep the D the same.
If the Wings had been losing big, I would say change things up
But three very close one-goal losses can turn into one big blowout loss.
I do not think Modano could play better than Bertuzzi. Miller for Abdelkader though, I think I would like to see.
by J.J. from Kansas on May 6, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
No prediction from me, too nervous
Still nervous..excited. Wore my Yzerman sweater to work with my 2008 Stanley Cup Championship t-shirt on. Getting it from the Avs fans around here, I don’t care. I will be watching and cheering and hoping that there will be another game after today.
As for Lidstrom, I refuse to even think about it.
I openly sobbed in 2006 when the Captain skated off the ice for the last time. I am not thinking about it today.
Thinking about yelling and screaming and cheering the Winged Wheelers on to victory.
Getting what from Avs fans?
- Big Prize – they have 2, we have 4 (in recent memory that is).
- they had a dirty, candy-ass, turtle on their team, he have a big guy who had one bad idea once while playing him.
- we both had really classy captains back when the Avs actually had a team, now we have another one.
- they have a hyperbaric chamber for recovery when they go into lower altitudes, we have…..Dr. Rahmani)
Sorry, but you can’t respect a team that has Bigfoot patches on their shirts.
Down 3-0 in the series
and nothing needs to change? No line up changes, no changes in game plan? I had an optimistic outlook yesterday, but this makes me very uneasy.
I realize all three games have been close, puck luck, yada yada yada…bottom line is we’re down 3-0. Something DOES need to change.
secondary scoring
Primary Assist – Goal Scorer
Dats-Lids
Dats-Zett
Zett-Lids
Zett-Dats
Forget the flukey goal by Eaves. The Red Wings so far are only 3 players making an impact and getting on the scoresheet. And 3 players are not going to take down a team rolling 3 effective forward lines with 3 different defensemen chipping in goals.
Time to blow it up in the offseason. Time to say goodbye to the following :
Modano
Bertuzzi
Hudler
Holmstrom
Draper
Lidstrom still has it – it is just a question if he wants to risk missing the playoffs next year. The wings need some youth and some growing pains – maybe even trade away dats / zett / franzen (good luck on franzen though) to bring in some younger talent , pull an edmonton for a few years and replenish the talent.
what do you think?
maybe even trade away dats / zett
DOES NOT COMPUTE
by Rat A Tat on May 6, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
damn dude
season’s not even over yet. your first point of needing secondary scoring makes sense but you lost me completely after that.
Sorry, that was knee-jerk
What I mean to say was “Edmonton still sucks” and that Lidstrom said last year when he signed his contract that a big part of the reason he didn’t retire was because he felt the Wings could compete.
If the Wings start a rebuild now, it will definitely spell the end of Lidstrom’s career.
I would not suggest trading away Datsyuk or Zetterberg for anything. We’d have to get HUGE return on Franzen.
Either way, I’ll think more about it after the Wings’ season is officially over.
by J.J. from Kansas on May 6, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like wishful thinking from a sharks fan.
The trade away players, take a few years to “rebuild” mentality is not one employed by Detroit. We do things differently than many other teams, thank goodness, and not even in another dimension would we EVER trade away Z or Pav. I almost didn’t even bother to post a response since this is so preposterous, but I did get a laugh out of the last period from the obvious obsurdity.
by SlapshotGoal on May 6, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
So you think trading away one of the two players that is actually contributing (by your own admission) to bring in some “younger talent” is the way to go? The Wings need “youth and some growing pains”?
what do you think?
I think you’re someone who knows nothing about the Red Wings and should think long and hard about what you are saying before saying it.
I never understood the concept
of a fan of one team going to another team’s board and telling them that they should blow up their lineup and start rebuilding.
Unless this guy thinks that his commenting history on SB Nation isn’t searchable by everybody?
Seems like at best, it’s wishful thinking that one of the best teams in the conference would trade away their best talent.
by J.J. from Kansas on May 6, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
This would be like me going to FtF and saying that they should try and trade Couture because his value is high and they should try to capitalize on that before paying him big bucks.
We (and by that, I mean actual Wing fans) will have time to discuss what the Wings should do going forward once their season is over. The last thing I want is a Sharks fan telling me that the Wings should trade Pavel or Hank because the team needs to experience growing pains. The Wings already had their growing pains: it was called the early-mid 1990s.
i'm not tellin gyou guys.
I’m asking you guys. If Lidstrom retires, the Red Wings are not going to be as good. I am just asking if the fans think it is time to start anew. A lot of fans throw in the towel and hope for the team to part ways with players because they just aren’t going to win the cup realistically. San Jose will probably face this decision after 3 years – not much talent down on the farm.
by neveragain24 on May 6, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
The Wings don't rebuild.
They reload.
Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin
by J_Stone on May 6, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
OK then...
I guess all you guys are in the same boat. Hope the off-season reload works out – just to make you guys better, but not good enough to beat us.
Here’s to a good game tonight. Maybe Thornton can end another series in overtime :)
If Lidstrom retires,
That’s, what, 6 million dollars of cap space freed up? Of course he’s irreplacable…but it’s not like the Wings won’t look for another high-caliber Dman once it happens (Shea Weber? yes?). I agree with J_Stone above, they will reload. As much as I shudder to think what the Wings will look like without Lidstrom, it’s not like they will instantly drop off the face of the earth.
BTW, we all had similar thoughts when Yzerman retired.
And yet, 2008 happened and the playoff streak is still alive. It’s not anything against the importance of having the Yzermans or Lidstroms of the world, but rather a testament to the long-term planning and success our GMs and how the teams are built.
by tehGOALIE on May 6, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough
But, Yzerman wasn’t nearly as good as Lidstrom is when he retired, and the Wings had Z and Datsyuk waiting to take over the offensive production. We don’t have anyone ready to take over for Lidstrom.
When Holmstrom and Bert signed for 2 years in the offseason that told me we had two seasons left with the vets. That means Lidstrom is likely back for one more year at the end of which Bert, Homer, Raffy and Lidstrom are probably a goner.
Of course they are not going to be as good
You don’t lose one of the top players of all time and not see your overall talent dip a little. But to think that the Wings will all of a sudden no longer be contenders because he’s gone (and personally, I think he’s coming back anyway) is wishful thinking for Wing opponents.
Besides, with the core the Wings have combined with some of the players on the farm, why would they need to “start anew”? The Wings top 3 forwards (Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen) are collectively 1 year younger than Thornton, Marleau and Heatley. If the Sharks were the ones facing elimination, would you be calling for them to “start anew” by trading one of them?
A lot of fans throw in the towel and hope for the team to part ways with players because they just aren’t going to win the cup realistically.
Maybe, but we’re not Shark fans ;)
by Amerinadian on May 6, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
rec'd
Maybe, but we’re not Shark fans ;)
or Blackhawks fans. ZING!
You just got Kronwalled!
by DeathtotheHawks on May 6, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha. I have respect for Sharks fans in general. If anything, that statement may now apply to Capitals fans.
maybe the capitals will trade away
Ovechkin and Backstrom for younger talent. <-sarcasm but pretty much the same thing that was suggested.
Another note… who says that we don’t have one of those diamonds waiting for us. Obviously no one thought that Pav and Z were going to be this amazing when we unearthed them somewhere in the 200’s. Not to mention Holmstrom, Helm & Ericsson.
I see the Future, Mursak 182nd, Pulkkinen 111th, and what about Nyquist 121st he’s shaping up to be a monster. Real fans don’t want to sit through there team being dismantled. I for one can’t wait to see us reload
You just got Kronwalled!
by DeathtotheHawks on May 6, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
this is crazy talk
although, trading franzen I could see happening if the return is huge (kesselesque plus one NHL ready player). I might consider it since Franzen has been a no-show for the last 3 months. But I am not Holland and am only an armchair general manager who is way too emotional. Trading away Datsyuk and Zetterberg…..hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Maybe the wings will sign lidstrom and trade him at the deadline next year too. I also think Ilitch should fire Holland and replace him with John Ferguson……
DETROIT RED WINGS – "war were declared"
just a little trolling...
But honestly, I wanted to know the red wings perspective. No doubt Dats and Zett are amazing players – I just wanted to know if the fans would consider trading them away to rebuild with some youth. Seems like the answer is an emphatic no.
At some point, San Jose is going to face these same questions. Our farm system is not exactly stocked with talent – so much so that we went out and got Eager and Wellwood in the middle of the season to send some guys back down to the minors.
After 20 years of the playoffs, the red wings have managed to stay relevant by drafting late round gems like zetterberg and datsyuk. I’m just not sure those gems are in your system any longer.
by neveragain24 on May 6, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
You didn't exactly go out and get Wellwood.
St. Louis went out and got Wellwood and you snatched him up off waivers like Wellwood snatches up Twinkies.
Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen
St. Louis tried to get him
but we got him!
I’m glad the guy has such a bad rep – because other teams ahead of us on the waiver wire did not take him. I wish he would shoot more and had a better shot, but the guy has got some slick moves and soft hands for a third liner.
by neveragain24 on May 6, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Hard to say at this point
The thing about the Wings is that while they are “late round gems”, the Wings also take the time to groom the players in the farm and learn the system before being brought up to the NHL, where they are put on the third or fourth line. There’s no pressure on rookies to step in and perform on the Wings, unlike in other cities.
yes sir, those guys look golden
as well as Gustav Nyquist… he led the entire NCAA in points this year.. the future is bright!
by kylegroombridge on May 6, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Question from a Shark's fan abount Modano...
I haven’t seen much of the Wings this season outside of our games against your team. How has Modano done overall? He’s historically been a Shark killer, scoring way to many goals against us in the playoffs when he was with Dallas. I’m surprised that Babcock didn’t at least give him a look tonight. I’ve been worried that he’d get on the ice and create the mojo to do us in.
Here’s to a good game tonight, it goes without saying that your franchise is the sterling example of quality that ours strives to be.
Hard to say
He started off slowly as he adjusted to the team and system, but just as he was heating up he sustained the wrist laceration that sidelined him for about 3 months. Since then, he’s been in and out of the lineup, but something has happened that has made Babcock keep him out of the lineup for this series.
He’s made comments this year that have been not very “Red Wings-like”, like when he mentioned that the conditioning was harder than he ever faced in Dallas, and before the playoffs he talked about how this may be his last go and he’ll retire if the Wings make the Finals. That’s against the “team-first” attitude the Wings have, and put a lot of attention on himself. I think being a healthy scratch in the most important game of the year sends a strong message to him about how he really has no place on this team.
Thanks for the kind words. I’d wish your team good luck, but we need all the help we can get ;)
Uhm
Homer is not Kyle Wellwood.
Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen
It'll be hard to tell the difference after Homer eats him
"I don't think you're happy enough. I'll teach you to be happy."
I don't understand why franzen has been in these games
If he’s hurt he needs to sit because he’s not doing anything on offense, and most likely hurts more on the defensive side of things. He and filppula have been invisible. Modano not being in the lineup at all will be second guessed heavily after this series. Its a shame too because just like the last year, the wings have had leads going into the third period (two times this year, I think more last year). Oyyyy…..there was a time when if a team was trailing after two against the wings the game was over. Hopefully Detroit gets some secondary scoring tonight and extends this. I am not big into embarrassing losses.
DETROIT RED WINGS – "war were declared"
Dude, the franzen question has been asked countless times..
It’s the same as Hudler, but with way more emphasis – Babs keeps him in because of his scoring potential. Just like Yzerman on one knee in the 02 playoffs is better than most guys on 2 knees, Franzen’s lethal shot is something you can’t sit because of a nagging ankle at this point.. He has looked dangerous at times, just needs to find the scoring touch again.
by kylegroombridge on May 6, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
So…guess who has a final from 7-9 PM tonight? Yup. DVR-ing it…
Nevertheless, there will be a Game 5.
Winging It In Motown and now covering Hokie baseball at Gobbler Country
On The Twitter at @MrNorrisTrophy
What the hell is it with you guys and Friday night classes?
Talk about epic scheduling fail.
Good luck on your test. My recommendation is to just put C for everything and get out of there are 7:05.
Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen
C C C C C C.....
Who was in you study group, Dave and Chainsaw?
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
by rock n rye on May 6, 2011 2:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for the Summer School reference
You just got Kronwalled!
by DeathtotheHawks on May 6, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
they're not alone
i managed to avoid classes that scheduled them then, but my college also schedules exam times on Saturdays.
Gotta work straight through the game...
Gonna be yelling at every server and bartender I see to give me a score update, and rocking some Wings stuff under my chef’s coat.
LGRW. Game 5 here we come.
Just another Wings fan caught between Leafs and Sabres territory.
You don’t have a Red Wings chef coat?
For shame.
Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen
Find me one, I'll buy it and wear it proudly
Just another Wings fan caught between Leafs and Sabres territory.
You guys all need the THN app!
Seriously – you can set alerts so you’ll know when a goal is scored, when the game starts, ends, end of period, etc.
It’s seriously cool. I’m sure it might work better on my Blackberry (since Hockey News and BB are both in Canada), but you’ll never miss anything (except watching the game live).
…..however, I’ve heard it’s bad to yell out FUCK in the middle of class if you see a goal scored by the opposing team.
No blowout tonight
I said last year how to come back, and it does not involve a blowout game 4—save that for game 5
Tonight is not be about avoiding a sweep, but about playing the best hockey in what might be the last game of the season
this will not be the last game.
we have at least 12 more.
by kylegroombridge on May 6, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
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