Quick Hits: On the Future of the Joe
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 15, 2011 6:30 AM CDT
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- The Flames added defenseman Scott Hannan for 1 year, $1 million. Good addition for them, in my eyes, especially at that price. [Matchsticks and Gasoline]
- The Red Wings are holding a "HockeyFest" on September 11. There will be activities, player autograph signings, tours, and more at the Joe. Tickets are $25 for adults and $15 for children. [Purchase at RedWings.NHL.com]
- According to ESPN, the Wings are in good shape future-wise. The Sharks and Canucks? Not so much. Then again, this is ESPN and their hockey coverage is lackluster to say the least. [PuckDaddy - ESPN requires an Insider subscription]
- Last week, I posted a link regarding the successor to the Joe. It was paid-subscriber only, so we had to go by the snippets that Malik was giving us. Well, Malik is back and with a much more in-depth analysis saying that building an arena in this economic climate will be much more difficult than anyone thinks (which is unfortunate because we all knew it would be difficult). Some interesting tidbits:
- The Wings are currently pumping about $2 million into the city of Detroit each year.
- The current agreement (there is no contractual lease at the moment) has the Wings paying $25,000 per month to use the arena, along with property taxes and 7-10% of ticket sales.
- In exchange, the city is providing adequate police force and sole maintenance on the exterior
- The city has had sole control over Cobo Arena since the old lease ended, which is making it much, much easier to renovate the Cobo complex in an effort to keep the North American Auto Show in Detroit
- A new arena would cost between $300 and $400 million
- While the Ilitch family could pay for it out-of-pocket, they would prefer to get financing from the city, Wayne County, the state of Michigan, and possibly surrounding counties.
- Previous reports have said the city would not try to renovate the Joe if the Wings leave, likely preferring to demolish the arena and use it as part of the Cobo Center or turn it into a park. (No source on this, I remember reading it in the Free Press last summer)
- The Red Wings have released their Prospects Camp roster and schedule. The only notable exclusions seem to be Tomas Tatar and Thomas McCollum. All the likely faces such as Brendan Smith, Tomas Jurco, Gustav Nyquist, and Landon Ferraro will be in attendance. [The Production Line]
Discussion of the Day: what do you think the fate of the Joe should be when/if the Wings move out?
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Discussion of the Day: what do you think the fate of the Joe should be when/if the Wings move out?
Whatever the city decides for it really, even if that involves demolition. The historical record of the Joe is going to be safe, but it’s not such a landmark piece of architecture that it needs to be preserved for the sole sake of preserving it.
by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 15, 2011 7:02 AM CDT reply actions
On the contrary… it is an absolute abysmal piece of architecture. At least on the outside. The only thing I could see happening to it, other than demolition, is a Detroit Sports Hall of Fame being placed in there. Though I think I would prefer to see it torn down and the space used to help rejuvenate and beautify the area.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 15, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Tear it down and make use of the land.
Downtown has enough wasted and unused space. We don’t need another Michigan Central Station sitting around and deteriorating.
I hate Jonathon Ericsson.
Don't Move Out?
Most of these new arenas are lame cookie-cutters. The Joe has history, character, and intimacy. And then we can save the city some money and, less importantly, Illitch some money for the Wings’ and Tigers’ rosters. Renovate if you must.
The money saved in the short run won't overcome the potential money earned in the long run
Renovating the Joe would cost a lot of money and you’d still be left with one of the oldest buildings in the NHL. The other thing is to look at what specific renovations would be needed. Right now the biggest moneymaking problem of the Joe is that it’s lacking for luxury boxes. While that may not matter to the fans, those boxes bring in a TON of revenue. As it stands, the Joe isn’t really built to have more of those added in a way that wouldn’t eliminate a ton of seating.
by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 15, 2011 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe it doesn't save the Wings money then...
But it does save the city of Detroit money. It’s ridiculous to ask taxpayers to pay for a new athletic facility.
Depends on what they're getting back out of it.
Ilitch is considering paying for it himself (at least that’s what I’ve been led to believe). But if he pays for it out of his own pocket, don’t expect the city or county to be able to pull nearly as much money out of that as they used to (or currently) pull from the Joe Louis lease.
Big arenas are civic investments. The city has plenty of other things they should worry about (like the corruption within), but this is not exactly a gift that taxpayers give to teams only to see no returns.
Personally, until I see any specific offers, I’m going to reserve judgment on which side should be doing what to make a new arena happen.
by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 15, 2011 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The money saved? The renovations that need to be done at the Joe in an effort to keep it open, usable, and on level with other arenas around the league (and thus make the Wings a viable free agent location) are said to be on par with what they are currently doing in New York with Madison Square Garden, a building with far more history and prestige than the Joe (MSG is often cited as the best arena in the world). The cost of the MSG renovations? $850 million. I doubt it would take nearly that much to do work on the Joe, but I have read as much as $50 million is needed just to keep the Joe up and running, nevermind improving the thing (and that such renovations would need to begin before 2015 or we could start seeing structural damage like the Old Yankee Stadium saw)
And it is likely that if a new arena is built, the Pistons would possibly move back downtown as well. Imagine another 41+ days a year that the city has people pouring into it to see games, go to bars and restaurants, etc. etc. Or the prospect of luring in concerts from the Palace and DTE. Or having that train station right in front of the arena. In my opinion, staying really isn’t an option at this point.
Also, just for kicks, this is one freaking awesome time-lapse video of the renovations underway at MSG. It is amazing just how much work they are doing in there.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 15, 2011 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
MSG is often cited as the best arena in the world
By people in New York. Just sayin’.
by Big Z in Orlando on Aug 15, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
The Joe's afterlife:
Really needs to become part of Cobo. That hall simply isn’t big enough or modern/nice enough to attract every car company to NAIAS. With the extra space you can throw a lot more exhibits in there and make it far more attractive.
I hope that we get a new arena sooner rather than later. Going to places like Tampa and Glendale over the past couple years have shown me how truly dated the Joe is. A first-class organization like the Wings needs a first-class facility. Other than the locker room, I would consider the Joe anything but first-class in this day and age.
Prospects camp roster:
Any particular reason why neither of McCollum/Pearce will be there? Not that it really matters, just curious. Also….Sadikov @ 6’5" 215! Yes…contract please!
McCollum and Pearce are known quantities. My best guess is that because we have 5 goalies to look at and already know what we have in those two (in addition to those two being on the main Griffins roster next season) made it an easy decision to get a better look at our 3 unknown goalies during this camp instead of just more from those two. At least that is how I would have done it if I were Kenny.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 15, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
It’s understandable if that’s the case. I was just worried about the fact that no reasoning had been announced.
Yeah, it is no big deal. McCollum will 100% be Joey Mac’s backup next season and Pearce will either ride behind them or play in Toledo again
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 15, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry for the rapid fire posts,
but this couldn’t be ignored. I hate the media sometimes:
DETROIT – APRIL 18: General view of Joe Lewis Arena
Fail
Detroit has bigger problems than what to do with the space downtown.
For one they need to build better parking structures and organizing events to ease traffic in and out of the city. Coming back from the Lion preseason opener against the Bengals an on ramp to I-75 was blocked off as parking for buses. Also there was poor communication between personnel in the street directing traffic. Traffic cops would have helped to get past slower lights.
That's not indicative
That was only a giant clusterfuck because of the Kid Rock stuff going on simultaneously. On a normal football Sunday it’s much more organized. I do agree, though, that parking will have to be a major priority for a new building.
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