Weekly Hate: Me and Conclusion-Leaping

Im glad penguins fans now have to root against that idiot and pretend the garbage he pulled as a penguin was somehow justified.

JJ, from a fan who has watched the national media context-free pile on, I appreciate you watching this game and offering a third-party take. Thank you.

It’s been unbelievably frustrating watching the Isles the past three seasons, as they actually were a young team that employed no full-time enforcer (and took a lot of flak for not “protecting the kids”) from 2008-09 to half way through 2009-10. Personally I’m in the camp who has argued enforcers are and/or should be obsolete, that they’re never on the ice with the stars that they’re supposed to “protect” anyway.

But after watching what happens in the Atlantic — the Talbot targeting of Tavares is typical — and seeing how traditional means of revenge (powerplays rarely awarded, middleweight revenge fights given instigators, making matters worse) were too few and far between, I found myself in an unfamiliar position when the Islanders finally called up Gillies mid-way through 2009-10: I understood.

I blame the league for this. For its impotence in dealing with fighting and the cheap shots fighting is allegedly supposed to deter, and for its self-contradictory embrace of “man up” old school hockey while completely inconsistently enforcing the disasters that inevitably result.

The question of getting rid of one-trick enforcers (something I’ve advocated in the past) always inevitably leads to, “Well, how do we transition to that point?” And ultimately I don’t trust the league to be able to handle it even half-way competently. That’s how I came around to grudgingly accepting the Isles using one-dimensional fighters who could afford game misconducts — in the current environment, you either take up arms or fall prey to the holes in the rules (since few teams have the pure kill-them-with-skill alternative of the Wings).

And that’s why it pisses me off when people who only watched the ugly highlights act like the Islanders were some Slapshot team that put a black mark on the league in some vacuum where other teams are angelic. (The contrast between how the Price-Thomas fight and line brawl and the Isles-Pens February matches was telling.) The Islanders weren’t built this way and would never have even added Gillies if they hadn’t tried playing it straight as they developed their skilled prospects and got burned. (Even Islanders fans condemn the worst events of that game, but also raise the point that a whole lot of other events from that game and historical context demands attention.)

P.S. Though this brawl-filled blowout was fresh off the 3-0 Johnson-DiPietro loss the week before, the Pens-Isles bad blood went back well further than that. You could say the tone was set when Matt Cooke ran Rick DiPietro (coming off injury…again) three times in one game earlier in the season.

Thanks JJ for watching the game, and I completely enjoyed your summary of it.

I am of the belief that there should not be fighting in hockey; I would rather see strong officiating rather then players policing themselves. I don’t know how one day I will explain to my two young sons how fighting is bad in every aspect of one’s life, yet we (myself included) stand up and cheer when two hockey players fight, and cheer even louder when one of our Islanders beats the other guy and “wins” the fight.

But after watching the Islanders get embarassed, shoved around, and bullied for years, watching this game gave a lot of Islander fans a feeling of redemption and solidarity.

I don’t condone what Gilles did, but I can say that he only has a job because guys like him are (unfortunately) needed thanks to guys like him on other teams.

I can also say that after attending the rematch at NVMC, the Penguins fans near me were all very classy and we had a good time with the game.

Anyway, thanks for the writeup, and I hope that games like this aren’t necessary…..although in order to stop me from watching it, the NHL will have to pry my DVR out of my cold, dead hands…..and that issue (of them not wanting this to be replayed at an Islanders get together), to me, is just as important.

Good luck this year, and thanks again.

Thanks for looking at the deeper, “away from the play” shenanigans and taking a step away from the narrative.

Another one of the funny things about Haley is that after all of the injuries between the Isles and Bridgeport, he was leading Bridgeport in goals at the time with 12. He was legitimately our best option.

What did you think of the game as a game? Pretty good scoreboard beating right? Who wouldn’t want to see that?

Right after I saw it for the first time. I honestly wondered where all the outcry was coming from, because that game wasn’t as much of a one way street as the media made it seem.

Of course, I still do agree with the fines and suspensions to the Isles (sorry LHH friends!), but there probably should have been some thrown the Penguins way as well. It probably was easier to throw the book at the Isles guys because they had spent less time in the NHL up to now (Gillies, specifically)

I respect that you took the time to re-watch and change your view point. That kind of thing doesn’t happen nearly enough these days, as far too many people will just take whatever the media shoves down their throats as the Word of God and never question it.

I remember that Talbot hit martin from behind or somthing the last time they played each other before this and Martin got hurt so if i remember correctly the sucker punch was his " revenge"

This is definitely one of the best hockey-related articles I’ve ever read. Kudos to you!

First of all, thank you for doing this.

I have to correct you on a big error, though:

Michael Haley, the AHL goon called up specifically for this grudge match game

This is 100% wrong. First of all Haley is not a “goon” he is a player who also fights. Haley was the AHL’s leading goalscorer and he was called up because the Islanders were the most injured team in the NHL and needed a forward.

I don’t really have an opinion about the game in question because I haven’t watched the whole thing. But, I definitely believe all the horror stories about the refs/league giving pit a ton of slack, for one reason. I remember watching the Wings/Pens game late in the season and by half way through the first, I was absolutely fuming. Without their stars, they are nothing but a team of deranged thugs. Every time the puck went into the corner, it was crosscheck, crosscheck, slash, crosscheck!!!! The refs let this go on for a period and a half and then they finally took their whistles out of their asses when the Wings didn’t retaliate after half the game. I just remember being very glad that no one was hurt while the refs were on vacation and wondering if this was how the Pens normally conducted business without their stars. Because if so, the league really needs to examine the officiating bias towards some favoured teams. Especially while their big names are injured. If the game I watched was something that the Isles have to deal with on a regular basis, then Salute!! I don’t think any team could put up with that for very long, nor should they have to.

But I do have one small correction to make. Talbot actually grabbed Haley, then he regretted it.

Thank you for having an open mind. I have always liked the Wings, and Jimmy Howard and me grew up in the same neck of the woods.

For coming BACK to this with an open mind, and giving your fair and honest assessment. There are at least a few things that may be arbitrary but have some bearing to the incidents in the game, and the reporting about it which are always left out.
1. Haley was the leading goal scorer at Bridgeport when he was recalled. This says something about Haley (it says something worse about the situation in Bridgeport) besides him being a goon called up to brawl. He’s also below the Mason Dixon line of your usual NHL THUG… being somewhere between 190 and 199 pounds. The Islanders also led the league in man-games lost to injury last year. So when you say something was pre-meditated, his call-up speaks more to the number of goals than it does to the amount of penalty miutes.
2. Tangredi was no angel either. Besides his resume as a junior pugilist, he was also the douche of the 2009 WJC. He was the guy who stuck his stick out after Tavares’ goal that started the mini-brawl. I wouldn’t doubt that was mentioned in the locker room. Why didn’t he get a year away from the sport for that senseless act?
3. Just for good measure, nobody knows what Gillies was screaming from the glass. He just as easily could have been telling the refs that his teammate had just been jumped and was getting doubled up by the goalie who invited the exchange and the thug who thought it was his responsibility to be the third man in. As to his initial encounter with Tangradi, the only bad part of that exchange was that he hit him with his HANDS (not his elbows) high. A hit like that happens at least once a week in every NHL city in the country. Only the hit isn’t from somebody that is less than 5% body fat. And I don’t blame Trevor for taking a few swings while the sneaky toll booth operator was going down. He was playing the TURTLE TOWN Penguins… and in a previous altercation Sean Avery goaded him into fisticuffs, turtled and drew a two penalties on the play. Trevor was at least trying to get his money’s worth.(that’s my spin on it at least). It’s unfortunate that Tanggredi was concussed on the play… but… like Colin Campbell says,“keep your head up boys”. I wonder why Matt Cooke’s hits are acceptable to Mario and Bylsma, but that one wasn’t? Hypocrisy? As for getting suspended in the game you return from a previous suspension. Look me up, I’ve got another 1000 words on that subject as well.
4. Blake Comeau is a card carrying member of the Pacifists Union. When Exlby nearly ended his family line, and punched him in the head (much worse than anything Martin did to Talbot) to boot Exlby got a few minutes in penalties. That seemed to give Maxime Turtle free reign to target Comeau on several occaisions, not just the one that concussed him(which, as you stated was "clean", but predatory). According to Comeau, Talbot wouldn’t follow "THE CODE" (who even knows what that is anymore) and Martin’s gesture (far less violent than what people make it out to be) was to get the turtle’s attention. I admit, I thought that was out of line, and out of character for Martin, but I think Talbot would take 100 of those as opposed to ONE predatory shot that he has delivered from the likes of Martin or the aforementioned Mr <5% body fat.

What I’d like to see, but will never happen, would be a re-airing of the game by the NHL network. And they could invite 5 players from each side to offer their perspective on each event. Maybe they can explain why Bailey and Hamonic were jumped. Maybe they can explain how Hillen was concussed in that game. Maybe Mario can explain why Matt Cooke buzzes goalies constantly… and defiantly buzzed oft-injured Rick DiPietro several times in a previous contest. Then the league can explain why these infractions are dealt with by aquitting Bylsma of his $10K fine for letting Goddard loose, but levying a $100K fine on the Islanders for what they deem as PRE-MEDITATED.

He is a skilled guy. “Goon” is perhaps the wrong word, but I did get the distinctive feeling that he started the game with a chip on his shoulder. Could have been the feel of the locker room and it could have just been that just about every guy who gets called up plays a bit wild in his first game up to try to garner attention from the coach.

The Hillen concussion was odd to hear about, because If I understand what I’m finding, he suffered it on a hit by Tangradi. If it’s the hit I think it is, then it was a good, clean hit. Of course, if it was one of the Godard punches in the 2nd period, then that’s another story.

Several things to add—and I apologize if others have already added these points:

1) Hillen sustained a concussion as a result of this game.

2) Talbot had repeatedly victimized Islanders—especially Comeau—over the years & was never willing to answer the bell after the fact. Respectfully disagree about his hit on BC in the 2/2 game. In any event, it makes Martin’s behavior a little more understandable—especially when you consider that he stopped as soon as Talbot turtled.

3) Agree that even with the extenuating circumstances that Gillies went over the line. In general, he is a standard issue enforcer who stands up for his guys—esp JT. He isnt anywhere near as bad as he is made out to be. Tangradi, I should add, has a long history of being a dirty player. At the 2009 WJC, he speared a Canadian player in the eye area while he was on the bench and the Canadian player was skating past celebrating a goal—scored by JT actually.

4) On 10/16/10, Matt Cooke ran RDP three times. Given that he was penalized each time, I have to believe that Byelsma told him to do this. I also have to believe that Byelsma instructed his guys to get chippy in the 2/2 game. The Penguins absolutely should have been fined as well and, yes, Mario is a total hypocrite.