Quick Hits: Weber, Kesler, and Hudler

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 3, 2011 6:18 AM CDT in Quick Hits

This was the closest thing to Hudler on a leash that I could find

For the first time in history, a team-elected arbitration went to hearing yesterday as the Predators struggled to determine a contract with captain Shea Weber. Reports have Weber wanting $8.5 million and the Predators wanting nearly half that at $4.7 million. The arbitrator has 48 hours (more like 36 hours at this point) to determine a proper value for a 1 year contract.
The Islanders avoided arbitration yesterday by agreeing to a 1-year, $2.5 million deal with forward Blake Comeau.
Michigan native Ryan Kesler had hip surgery yesterday. He was a big part of the reason the Canucks made it to game 7 of the Finals two months ago. He should be ready to go by the start of the regular season, though will likely miss training camp and pre-season.
The NHL plans to fight to keep the Islanders on Long Island. Just like they promised to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta and are currently fighting to keep the Coyotes in Arizona. Good luck, Islanders fans. Looks like you are going to need it.
The Devils bought out Colin White and Trent Hunter. White has spent his entire 11-year career with New Jersey and Trent Hunter was acquired in the Brian Rolston trade last week.
The Free Press has a player preview up for Jiri Hudler that basically says he is out of chances and will be "kept on a short leash." What are your hopes and realistic projections for Hudler this season?

Update: The arbitration is over and Weber was awarded a 1 year, $7.5M deal. Too much? Not enough? Thoughts? Keep in mind that he will be a RFA again next year, so none of this "the Wings should throw x at him" right now, ok?

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What are your hopes and realistic projections for Hudler this season?

Both hopeful and realistic: Hudler bounces back and puts up a solid 50-point season.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 3, 2011 7:18 AM CDT reply actions

That's sort of what I was thinking.

Hudler gets around 20-25 goals and 25-35 assists. It all depends on what line he gets put on and if he gets his mojo going. I think last year’s performance had a ton to do with factors outside the NHL and the readjustment. Here’s to hoping he’s happy again. Dude could be a good deal if he can outshine Flip or if they both move on up.

Get your Al the Octopus

byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/

by Josh Howard on Aug 3, 2011 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions

Islanders

You mean there ARE Islanders fans? I kinda liked certain aspects of the team, but it’s just a losing proposition to like or invest much in liking them. The organization is straight up shot.

Get your Al the Octopus

byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/

by Josh Howard on Aug 3, 2011 7:38 AM CDT reply actions

They used to be really good

Before the Oilers took over in the 80s, there were the Islanders. They stayed competitive until recently. I blame the curse of the fishstick sweaters and Charles Wang.
Seriously though, this is a team with a bit of tradition tied to it, not some Bettman pet project. I would like them to at least stay in the NY area.

"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson

by rock n rye on Aug 3, 2011 8:08 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions

bossy, gillies, trottier, potvin… man they were loaded

by mikerlz on Aug 3, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Bobby Nystrom too

Yzerman wore #19 because of Brian Trottier!

by Kendal on Aug 3, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions

4.7 million for Weber seems really low

by westspec on Aug 3, 2011 8:38 AM CDT reply actions

Does Nashville always "pay low" for their free agents?

Because, Weber is worth at least 1.5 million more than 4.7m. Maybe not the 8.5 million he was expecting, but still, much more than 4.7.

And for Hudler, I really hope for a 45-point season outta him with 20 goals, but I doubt its gonna happen.

"Goaltending is a normal job, sure. How would you like it in your job if every time you made a small mistake, a red light went on over your desk and 15,000 people stood up and yelled at you."
-Jacques Plante

by DetroitSports on Aug 3, 2011 8:51 AM CDT reply actions

Hudler

I’m no Hudlerphile or Hudlerphobe, but perhaps we shouldn’t give up on him until Holland and Babcock does. Hopefully he will arise to become that top 6 forward Babcock needs this year.

Get your Al the Octopus

byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/

by Josh Howard on Aug 3, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions

Nashville is currently $10 million or so under the salary floor. They let go of Tomas Vokoun in large part because they could not afford what he wanted. So yes, they do tend to pay low.

That said, both sides went to the extreme in their desires. The further away from the other person you go, the lower/higher the mid-point is. That mid-point is generally the starting point for the arbitrator.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 3, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions

Most reports I saw, had them both in the $6 mil range. So it’s not too much of a surprise that their arbitration numbers would be about $2 mil on either side of that mid point.

Dancing Datsyuk Decidedly Dazzles Dainty Defensemen

by Robocop on Aug 3, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions

I think

Hudler will rebound and put up about 50ish points with 15-25 goals and 25-40 assists. Would like to see him on a line again with Dats but who knows?

Go check out the Datsyukian Deke , Detroit Red Wings Blog
http://datsyukiandeke.wordpress.com/

by Detroitnr1 on Aug 3, 2011 9:08 AM CDT reply actions

Whodler..

Anything has to be better than his last shift/5 minutes,that he played in game 7. Will most likely haunt me until I see something better… much better. Let’s get happy again, happy!! We know you’ve got it in you or did at one time.

When it comes to Osgood, I agree with D-Mac 100%.. (http://youtu.be/_BJCxdkoIxc) I'm sure the same goes for Drapes. R.I.P. Grind Line!

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Aug 3, 2011 9:24 AM CDT reply actions

Hudler

10-15 goals, and 20-25 assists. He’s not being paid as much as Ericsson, so I think we need to temper our expectations a little. He is still our 6th most paid forward, but with Homer and Bert both capable on the 1st and 2nd lines we can afford to have him not produce 50 points. I mean Franzen only had 55 points last year and we pay him a boat load… So if Huds can get into the 30-40 point range I will be happy.

He should never play on a line with Cleary ever again. EVER!

I'm a Homer

by holmstrom96 on Aug 3, 2011 9:26 AM CDT reply actions

Come on now....

…. both sides put in ridiculous numbers for the arbitration and everyone is treating these numbers as what the two sides have been negotiating.

by djzielin on Aug 3, 2011 9:38 AM CDT reply actions

I meant for the Weber-Poile fiasco that is going on down here.

by djzielin on Aug 3, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions

correct

the numbers both sides put up for arbitration are $8mil from the Weber side and $4.75mil from the Predator side. it’s because the arbitrator picks somewhere in between (usually, even though technically, i’m pretty sure he can pick a number outside the range if he has the stones to accept the consequences), so each side puts forth something pretty outlandish in the hope that the overall cap hit/ money is closer to one side or the other.

You wanna tell me that to mah face?!

by uvgt2bkdnme on Aug 3, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions

It's not just Hudler's numbers.

Watching him play throughout the season was at times cringing. Both Hudler and Ericsson are going to looked at under a microscope. If either are not playing up to expectations I can see one or both leaving the Wings come the trade deadline or perhaps sooner. At what extra cost has me worried.

by Idle Drifter on Aug 3, 2011 9:48 AM CDT reply actions

Hudler

I’m willing to give Hudler another chance, because as frustrating as last year was he showed flashes of his old self at times. Now that he’s had a full year to readjust to the NHL level, my expectations are much more concrete for him…basically, he has to be an asset offensively, and I guess I’ll just echo the 45-50 point goal that seems to be realistic. But besides that, he has to be a threat more times than not, and he cannot be the ghost that he was last year and even all throughout the 2009 playoffs.

As for Weber…damn, Nashville really doesn’t want to pay fair market value, do they? 4.5 mil on a 1 year contract for a guy who almost won the Norris trophy? What are they smoking? Of course, 8.5 mil is kinda high…but much closer to a proper value than what Nashville offered.

by tehGOALIE on Aug 3, 2011 10:12 AM CDT reply actions

once again...

… it is an arbitration number. You’re supposed to lowball (team) and highball (player/agent) to get a deal somewhere in the middle. Those values have little bearing on where the previous negotiations were at.

by djzielin on Aug 3, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions

MLB doesn't do this....

… the team puts in a real number, the player agent puts in a real number as well … and the arbitrator picks either number. That’s why you don’t see ridiculous numbers with baseball’s arbitration.

by djzielin on Aug 3, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions

You just see ridiculous numbers everywhere else

Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! --George Carlin

by J_Stone on Aug 3, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions

You’re technically not supposed to see these numbers, either. It’s supposed to be private. Not sure how these numbers leaked out or even if they are accurate, it was just reported on Twitter last night (someone on TSN, I believe)

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 3, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions

Still

There’s a difference between trying to set a gate and throwing a stupid number out there.

$4.75M is a ridiculously stupid low number. It’s an insult to Weber and an insult to the system arbitrator’s intelligence.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 3, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions

Well

8.5 million is a bit ridiculous as well. That’s the fourth-highest in the league. There’s no way Weber can argue that he’s as good as, say, Crosby or Malkin.

by Float on Aug 3, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions

$1.5 million better than Brian Campbell's deal... PER YEAR

by djzielin on Aug 3, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions

Sidney Crosby signed for $8.7M in 2008

Factor in a meager 3% inflation (even though the league has been treating it like 5) and you get Crosby and Malkin worth $9.5M in today’s dollars. Hell, make it 5% and their contracts are about $10.07M to compare to what Weber is asking for.

Then take into consideration that defensemen are underpaid leaguewide, that $8.5M cap space ain’t what it used to be, that he’s not yet entered what many to be considered a defenseman’s prime years, yet he’s been a Norris contender for several years and a finalist this past season.

$8.5M is high, but it’s not ridiculous. $4.75M is ridiculous.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 3, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions

You compare numbers to numbers in an arbitration case...

… not sure why you would think inflation would matter.

by djzielin on Aug 3, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Because inflation is a number that makes sense of other numbers

Not sure why you would think it wouldn’t matter.

It makes the point:

$8.5M is high, but it’s not ridiculous. $4.75M is ridiculous.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 3, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions

UPDATE

Tim Wharnsby at CBC sports (as retweeted by a bunch of people) reports that Weber’s arbitration reward was $7.5M

Source

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 3, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions

hot. damn.

even factoring in salary inflation and the rise in the salary cap, i still didn’t imagine anything over $7mil.

if that’s true, then those Doughty negotiations just got that much more interesting . . .

You wanna tell me that to mah face?!

by uvgt2bkdnme on Aug 3, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions

…I had him pegged at $6-6.5 million.

Weber getting $7.5 million this season pretty much ensures we have no chance at getting him after this 1 year deal is up. Too expensive. Suter, though, we could get lucky with. There is no way he will sign for anything less than $6.5 million now and Nashville is unlikely to pony up for that.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 3, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Earlier rumblings

were that Weber was offering his services to the Preds for something around $6.5M if they would also commit to Rinne and Suter.

The Wings will be able to promise him what the Preds cannot – the promise that they will spend to make themselves as competitive as possible.

If that comes down to it, it’s a hell of a deal. Unfortunately, the fact that he will still be an RFA at the end of this deal pretty much means the Wings are going to have to give up assets to get his rights, because they’re not going to snag him on an offer sheet.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 3, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed. Which is why I think the target should be Suter at this point. Suter and Smith as our top pairing of the future? I can live with that.

Also: biggest winner of this ruling? Drew freaking Doughty.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 3, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I can’t believe the Preds would even let it get to this point. Though if they really were offering him anything in the ballpark of $5 million, then they are crazy. If they are going to lowball all their free agents like that, they are never going to put together anything more than a middle-of-the-pack team.
I thought he was going to be a UFA in a year, so finding out he’ll be an RFA really takes the fun out of wondering if he might be Lidstrom’s replacement.

by NMJ on Aug 3, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Hulder on a leash??? This can’t go anywhere good and now I think I might throw up..

by SlapshotGoal on Aug 3, 2011 11:31 AM CDT reply actions

you have only yourself to blame heheh

i’m pretty sure none of us thought anything close to that before you brought it up.

You wanna tell me that to mah face?!

by uvgt2bkdnme on Aug 3, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions

I can run with this

Hudler’s the one on the leash?

Looks like Hudler’s “ladies” finally turned the tables on him.

Of course, he’s had them on plenty of tables.

by Rat A Tat on Aug 3, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions

If Hudler....

doesn’t play better, and I’m not expecting 70 pts…45-50 pts, yes…it will make me even sadder that there wasn’t room for Drapes.

by wingsluver4ever on Aug 3, 2011 1:00 PM CDT reply actions

If he's not @ 50 pts -

then the Wings should unload him at the trade deadline for something. His deal will be over and then at least we’ll get something, even if it’s draft picks, for our $$. If he’s not @ 50 pts, that will mean he’s @ 30, on the 3rd or 4th line and we can find that on most any other team out there (well, ok maybe not St. Louis or the Islanders) – but you get the point.

by Kendal on Aug 3, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Does anyone think Nashville will walk away from the award?

Knowing how frugal (cheap, actually) Nashville is when it comes to playing their players, is it possible that they might actually walk away from the award and let Weber go as a free agent? If they do, how will that affect their negotiations with Suter and Rinne? This award really puts them in a tough spot since it will also probably affect what Suter will look for in his next contract.

Also, since Weber will still be an RFA next year, do you think Nashville will risk going to arbitration with him again? Or will they try to get him signed before that?

I was also thinking how this might affect what Kronwall and Stuart look for in their next contracts. I don’t think either one of them will look for $7.5 million/year, but they might think about raising their asking price.

by zfan16 on Aug 3, 2011 3:22 PM CDT reply actions

As far as I know they have to accept the award since they asked for arbitration, but I could very well be mistaken.

by Hornecker on Aug 3, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions

That is correct

Team elected arbitration means that the team cannot walk away from the contract.

by djzielin on Aug 3, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Even if they could walk away, they would be stupid to do so. 21 players on the team with Weber and they are just a hair over the salary floor. Without Weber, they would have to sign 3 players for that same amount of money. There are too few players worth that type of money on the market still so they would end up overpaying third-fourth liners instead of paying their captain, franchise player, and Norris nominee.

That said… they may end up doing that regardless. Reports are that Weber is significantly pissed off with the front office right now and the team has just 8 players under contract next season. Not signed for 2013? Defensive stars Weber and Suter, Vezina nominee Rinne, possible star Sergei Kostitsyn, Jordin Tootoo, and Brett freaking Lebda. With Weber pissed and possibly wanting out, they could stand to lose Rinne and Suter as well. Regardless, the Preds may have trouble hitting the cap floor next season.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 3, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions