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Weekly Hate: Shea Weber the Overrated?

Hmmmm... in which period do I want to take a dumb, momentum-killing penalty that could cost us the game?

In deference to my colleague Graham's post on Shea Weber last week, which was a glowing review of the man himself and a comment on the kind of player any hockey team should want to join their ranks, I wanted to take a look at the Shea Weber case from a different angle. Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything that Graham wrote, even this:

nothing that Weber has done publicly has prevented them from making their team better to become a legitimate contender for the Cup. That's all Weber wants, and we should applaud him for that.

Because he's absolutely right.  I'm not interested in talking about Weber the man; Weber as a person (off the ice) has never given me a reason to think cross thoughts about him. Weber is a young and tough leader; a mountain of a man with a diplomatic air and a threatening growl.  SHEA WEBER IS SEVEN FEET TALL AND IF HE WERE IN DETROIT, HE'D CONSUME THE NHL WITH FIREBALLS FROM HIS EYES AND BOLTS A-LIGHTNIN' FROM 'IS ARSE!

And that, my friends, is where the word "overrated" sneaks in.

Star-divide

Shea Weber is a hell of a hockey player. Since earning only one fifth-place vote for the Norris in 2008, he's been 4th, 7th, and 2nd in voting for each year after. Not bad for a guy within a week of his 26th birthday and about a year from his true prime as an NHL defenseman. It's pretty safe to say that he's eventually going to win at least one. So how is a guy like that overrated?

Because there are still people (Red Wings fans, no less) that are writing little hearts around his name in their diaries and etching the number 6 he'd never be allowed to wear in Detroit into their Trapper-Keepers. There are those who think this $7.5M restricted free agent-to-be are worth selling the farm in order to obtain because the Red Wings are eventually going to have to face the reality of replacing their team captain and generational talent (you know, the guy who was better than Weber last year?)  I'm not talking about those fans who know what the reality is and just think it's more fun to pretend it can happen.  Hell, count me among their members.  I'm talking about those who are so divorced from reality that it stopped telling people they ever even knew one another.  I'm talking about the people who would throw away the building blocks of a franchise for a guy that really only fits in as the cornerstone in Nashville.

Because acquiring Shea Weber within the next two seasons is going to take exactly that.

There are a lot of stupid things in Nashville: Those whistles they use when that drunken midget thug Tootoo takes the ice, their goal celebration song, the way they have to hand out instructions on how to properly chant, doing the wave in a crowd wearing all-yellow during the playoffs and making your arena looking like a toilet flushing, a $2,500 per-game tax levied against players for the privilege of playing in the Bridgestone Arena, Martin Erat, and many more.  David Poile is not among those things.

Oh shut up. I know he traded for Lebda, but we all know what that was about.

David Poile is not going to get rid of Weber for Jiri Hudler and a promise that Bertuzzi will stop walking through East Tennessee woods to mess with cryptozoologists. He's going to want tangible assets and he's going to want very good assets. We're talking about Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, or Smith. Maybe toss in Kindl or a young and hungry forward (perhaps one from Michigan). Definitely throw in some picks.  He's going to want Detroit to empty their cupboard for Weber and, in the process, Detroit would have to open up a big dark hole in their talent pipeline to accommodate that. Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, and Johan Franzen should be able to carry the offensive load for a few years, but late-round picks and a loss of some of the prospects that are supposed to be coming up to replace the production as age causes the inevitable drop-off would hurt Detroit down the line. Sure, we would have Weber to make up for that, but ask Nashville how well they've been able to do with a solid defensive corps playing behind forwards who (to put it nicely), score as often as blind squirrels with ADHD.

Images_medium
Uh-huh, uh-huh, Diet Pepsiiiii


Oh sure, this is all worst-case. Detroit hasn't shown any signs of hamstringing themselves with a below-the-cap budget and there's no way the Wings would have to part with ALL of the people I mentioned above. We'll wait for cap space to open up and snag some free agents along the way while we wait for what's left to develop into the surefire top-six forwards they're meant to be. Best-case or worst-case, things tend to hit somewhere in the middle. That's an awful lot of risk to assume.

Maybe we'll get lucky and the Preds will anger Weber with their negotiations around Suter and Rinne. Maybe Nashville hits an extended losing streak and falls out of playoff contention and Weber demands to be traded to a winner so he doesn't have to go down with the talent-leaking ship. That would likely help drive the trade cost down to a more reasonable figure. Of course, we all know how well people around that age do when they whine about how they're unhappy where they are and demand to be traded.  Look at the bright side there; at least Weber's a better driver...

OR maybe... juuust maybe, we give it a year and wait until the better defenseman in Nashville is a free agent (or trade about half the assets it would take to get Weber) . Shea Weber is mean and nasty and the kind of guy you make the face of a franchise. But Detroit already has a face. Ryan Suter is smart and cunning and all of those things we've been lucky to have in abundance on our blueline for years. Lots and lots and lots and lots of Preds fans think Suter is the better defenseman and, you know what? I agree. There's no need to blow up a franchise just yet to get a franchise defenseman. Burning down the stables to make room for your horse is not the way Ken Holland does business.

Comment 44 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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YOU TAKE THAT BACK

I should probably read the article before automatically hating you for hating my Shea Weber, but I think this approach is far more responsible.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 9, 2011 12:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Worth reading, if only for this comment:

doing the wave in a crowd wearing all-yellow during the playoffs and making your arena looking like a toilet flushing

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 9, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nobody puts Shea in the corner.

I hate your logic but it is spot on. Besides I can’t handle anymore man crushes.

by normypants on Aug 9, 2011 12:31 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

if we are going to empty the farm

i want doughty……he will play another 18 19 years, however i dont want to trade these people so id wait until the off season and look at parise weber and doughty and hope they make it to free agency.

by SLAUGHTERHOUSE on Aug 9, 2011 12:33 PM CDT reply actions  

I sincerely hope you are not thinking about getting all three because if you are… go put $20 down on it in Vegas. That’d be major cash.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 9, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

no i meant 1 of the three

or maybe 2 but thats a longshot…. big longshot

by SLAUGHTERHOUSE on Aug 9, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Funny you said "dump"

when it’s the Bridgestone that looks like a flushing toilet.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 9, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

My post was about how I admired Weber for the way he handled the situation and for wanting to win. I never suggested (nor do I believe) that the Wings should mortgage a significant chunk of their future for a defenseman, even one as good as Weber.

The Wings won’t need him this year with Lidstrom returning, and as JJ pointed out, Ryan Suter is going to be a UFA after this year. Assuming he does not sign an extension with the Preds before next year, why shouldn’t the Wings wait it out and try to sign him instead?

by Amerinadian on Aug 9, 2011 1:08 PM CDT reply actions  

"wait it out"

assuming with 100% certainty that Suter will not re-sign with Nashville, how likely is it that the Predators try to recoup something by trading his rights? and how likely is it that Detroit will actually trade for those early negotiating rights (assuming the cost in a trade isn’t prohibitive)?

You wanna tell me that to mah face?!

by uvgt2bkdnme on Aug 9, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Suter doesn't have an extension in place by the trade deadline

I would say it’s moderately likely they’ll try to move him. That likelihood will increase or decrease with where the Preds stand in the playoff race (no reason to believe they won’t be in it, but goofy shit happens sometimes).

Bottom line is that if he can help them get between 2 and 16 home playoff dates this coming season, they’re going to want to keep him around just to try to pull in as much money for the organization as possible. If they know he’s not going to re-up, they can always get at least SOME value from a team looking for his pre-July 1st rights.

As for Detroit trading for Suter before the end of the season? I’d say it’s also only moderately likely. There’s always going to be room for Suter on the blue line, but Detroit has a lot of defensemen right now. I haven’t seen Holland trade for pre-July 1st rights yet, but it’s possible he would make that move in the offseason.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 9, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Suter and Rafi during the Olympics...

…that was a damn treat to watch. There are quite a few of the same opinions over at OtF. While Weber is the more visible of the two, with the thunderous slap shot and the destruct-o-beard, Suter is prone to less gaffs, better defensive positioning and more intelligent movement of the puck.

In the same game, I’ve seen Suter defend perfectly against a 2 on 1 (caused by a bad Weber pinch) and then later move the puck with ease into the offensive zone to set up one of our “scorers” <- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… HA.. ha… =(

IMHO, your article ought to not be Weber is overrated, as it ought to be Suter is underrated.

Gonna miss you Joel Ward...

Go Predmirals!

by Poiju on Aug 9, 2011 1:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Agree

I couldn’t agree more with what you said. I’ve always liked Suter and think he would be a much better fit in Detroit.

by MsRedWinger on Aug 9, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, you’re spot on.

But if I start from the concept that Suter is underrated, then it looks like WIIM has spent the last two weeks heaping praise on Nashville Predators player.

That would just make me feel… dirty.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 9, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

J.J. you are dirty.

Get your Al the Octopus

byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/

by Josh Howard on Aug 9, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Suter & Raffi

were the best pair for the US in the Olympics by far.

by Kendal on Aug 9, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too-too whistles
Those whistles they use when that drunken midget thug Tootoo takes the ice

They should be banned just like the vuvuzelas!

by Kendal on Aug 9, 2011 1:33 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Of course, we all know how well people around that age do when they whine about how they’re unhappy where they are and demand to be traded. Look at the bright side there; at least Weber’s a better driver…

BOOM. Quite possibly the best line I’ve read; the balls to just fry Heatley on a pretty touchy subject, without a direct mention of his name. BOOM. Good night.

by hyeh81 on Aug 9, 2011 7:37 PM CDT reply actions  

As arrogant and pricklandish as Wing fans are....

….its nice to hear that y’all actually have some respect for (at least some of) the Preds.

If you want the cannon-terminator-physical Dman, Weber’s your guy. If you want the cerebral-calm-cando Dman, Suter’s your guy. Both have a different skill set, you gotta pick which one would work best in the Wings’ system. Frankly, I’d lean toward Weber being better for y’all cause Pavel and Henry could set up the cannon and Franson could mop up the rebound. On the other hand, if Lidstrom is retiring, then maybe you could use Suter cause he’s more of a puck moving defenseman.

Another point that I’d like to make is that these guys are both playing on a club with laughable offensive capability. Thta definitely impedes their scoring numbers, PP numbers +/-, and other stats. Both were on the #1 D-pairings for their respective countries during the Olympics and both played outstandingly. I shudder to think what these two could do for a competent offensive team.

But, all for not. Y’all ain’t getting either one of them. They’re gonna resign with the Predxs.

But if you could get either of them, you couldn’t go wrong.

 Again, thanks for the recognition.

The truth is always the right answer....

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Aug 9, 2011 9:39 PM CDT reply actions  

“pricklandish” is one of my new favorite words.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 9, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

+1

But I already copyrighted it so hands off!!!

The truth is always the right answer....

by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Aug 9, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Franzen

You guys had Franson, we have Franzen.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 10, 2011 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've got it

We’ll just take both of them.

Problem solved.

by Amerinadian on Aug 10, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Franzen – Datsyuk – Zetterberg
Suter – Weber
Howard

That is one hell of a starting lineup, especially when you have people like Smith, Tatar, Nyqvist, Jurco, Helm, Abdelkader, Kindl, etc. all coming into their own to back them up for years and years to come.

Let’s do it. But only if we give Nashville next-to-nothing of course.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 10, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do we have to give NSH anything? Or would 2 dollars be enough?

by Hornecker on Aug 10, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think they should have to give us something in return for taking those two off their hands. Sergei Kostitsyn would be an adequate scrub, I think.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 10, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I feel obligated to mention here that we got Draper for only $1. So that sounds like a good deal to me!

by SlapshotGoal on Aug 10, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

"score as often as blind squirrels"

reminder of Mac-ism that even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in while…said after one of his game winning goals.

by wingsluver4ever on Aug 9, 2011 11:11 PM CDT reply actions  

IIRC

that was his comment after the Game 4 Stanley Cup winning goal against Philly in ’97.

Not just another game winner….a Stanley Cup winner!

by Kendal on Aug 10, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

knew...

it was a playoff winner, but to lazy to look up which game….thanks for clarifying!

by wingsluver4ever on Aug 10, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Vast praise

for using the words “cryptozoologist” and “Bertuzzi” in the same sentence. Cracked me the up. I will now wipe the coffee off my monitor.

by voline on Aug 10, 2011 7:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Like Nashville

Is going to just give away two top defense-men to a Division rival. And you think Hawk fans are delusional?

by SLAZZ on Aug 12, 2011 6:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Where did you read that anywhere?

You have completely missed the point. If you’re representative of Hawks fans everywhere, then it’s no wonder why we call them idiots.

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 12, 2011 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

He may be referring to my comments above. If that is the case… I thought it was pretty obvious I was being completely sarcastic. Especially when I mentioned throwing in a scrub to even things out for the Wings and naming Sergei Kostitsyn that scrub.

by Apocalyptic0n3 on Aug 12, 2011 7:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes because we all know one person represents fans of a team around the world......

You can call me an idiot all you want, just another arrogant Wings fan what else is new. I forgot, hockey knowledge begins and ends with Detroit and only Detroit.

It’s no wonder we feel the same about you guys, it’s mutual.

From the arrogance, sense of entitlement and elitist attitudes a lot can be said of your fan base as well.

by SLAZZ on Aug 12, 2011 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blah blah blah

You either didn’t read the article or you missed some obvious sarcasm and forgot to reply to that comment with your original statement.

Regardless of which team is your favorite, that’s not smart.

Also:

Yes because we all know one person represents fans of a team around the world……

AND
It’s no wonder we feel the same about you guys

Seem to be telling me two different things about whether or not you do speak for all Hawks fans. Which is it?

by J.J. from Kansas on Aug 12, 2011 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

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