It's Preseason for Recaps Too: Hawks Beat Wings, Smith Suspension Likely
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 28, 2011 10:11 PM CDT
in Game Recaps
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PrintDetroit sent a team that had Justin Abdelkader and Darren Helm into Chicago to take on a Hawks squad featuring Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa, Duncan Keith, and Brent Seabrook. After jumping out to a 3-1 lead, the Wings ultimately fell to four Chicago power play goals.
Before we get to the bullets, I want to talk about Brendan Smith's hit on Ben Smith. Nearly mid-way through the third period, the Chicago winger skated into the Detroit zone toward the net with defensive prospect Brendan Smith coming on to cut off the angle. Brendan Smith lined up his similarly-surnamed opponent and delivered a crushing check which left the Blackhawks player dazed and earned him a major penalty and a game misconduct.
For this hit, Brendan Smith will VERY likely face suspension from a league that has, under the rule of Brendan Shanahan punished head shots and other questionable hits quickly and severely in the preseason. While I don't think there was nasty intent in Brendan Smith's act, that will not and should not prevent him from being punished. The only question remaining is how long will the suspension be and whether he can serve it in Grand Rapids or whether he should have to serve it when the team is ready to call him up.
Bullet points after the jump
- Fabian Brunnstrom will get a contract with the Red Wings. If you weren't sure about that before tonight, get sure about it now. He needs to spend more time getting used to the Red Wings' system, but he has the raw skill to contribute. The worry now is whether he'd be able to even clear waivers to make it down to Grand Rapids to get the seasoning I think he still needs.
- Cory Emmerton continues to impress. He played with Brunnstrom tonight and the two of them had very good chemistry. I'm still worried about his ability to grow beyond a third-line player (when the Wings currently have enough of those), but I think he's earned a chance.
- Gustav Nyquist is also still very impressive. I had a thought before the game that he might actually be as close to ready for NHL action as Tomas Tatar is. He may not be there just yet, but he's getting better and that's a good thing for a player who's already damn good.
- Speaking of Tatar, he still plays with the puck at a hundred miles per hour. He's getting better about keeping control of it. He's got hands that some would call "nifty."
- Ryan Johnson can be cut as of yesterday for all I care. I'm completely unimpressed with him.
- I can't help but rooting for Chris Conner. He doesn't really have the skills to stay with a big club in a role they don't already have filled with the much better Drew Miller, but he's scrappy. I don't mean that like he's an annoying ancillary dog that everybody hates, either.
- Jonathan Ericsson did not have a great game. He was...decent, but he wasn't $3.25M worth of d-man tonight.
Here's the Video:
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Smith
No question that under the new rules, that’s a suspendable offense. He made direct contact to the head. He’s got no history, so he won’t get 10 games or anything, but I could see anywhere from 2-5. Using the Boyes hit as precedent could mean 2, but their Smith was hurt more so it could mean an extra game or two.
I wish there was some way I could say the hit was unavoidable or that their Smith contributed to it, but our Smith needs to stay away from the head. Either aim lower for the body or back up and try to stop him on the pass.
I still think it was a bit of a bad break. CHI Smith shifted at the last second…this in no way absolves B Smith of the punishment he’s going to be handed, but I think there’s a double lesson to be learned from this. 1) Make sure to miss the head. 2) Don’t move in a way as to put your head into someone’s shoulder.
You're wrong Mick. That blob may have peanuts, but it ain't no Baby Ruth.
I know
In that split second when their Smith pulls back, our Smith has to make a decision on whether to continue with the hit he’s committed to or try and pull back. I can tell you it’s virtually impossible to stop in that moment, but that’s what he needs to do.
He would have been better to have pulled the shoulder and arm into his body and kept everything tight. If it’s a simple collision, he’s unlikely to hit the head and it’s just a good check.
by Amerinadian on Sep 28, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
My point of view is close to this.
Its a judgment class on wrether or not he should have pulled back on the hit. But I believe he shouldn’t have made the hit in the first place. It wasn’t strictly North-South (nor was it strictly East-West) he simply should have let Ben Smith have the puck and play the position (aka take away the center of the ice). But its hard to question a player who is playing at real time for that kind of thing.
He will be suspended and should be. It was clearly a hit to the head, thought most likely not intentional. So expect 4-5 games for it at least, even for a first offense, cause that exact kind of thing they want to get rid of the most.
"Hey Laserlips. Your mama was a snowblower."
Yikes. I go to class, see Fabian scores two, come home and see that Smith is going to get suspended. I picked one hell of a night not to skip class.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Sep 28, 2011 10:38 PM CDT reply actions
You wrap your arms around him and squeeze firmly.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Sep 28, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I shudder to think how you would possibly know that.
by SlapshotGoal on Sep 29, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
You and I are the same page.
I think Nyquist and Tatar are pretty damn close to NHL-ready. It’s just a matter of whether or not they’re RED WINGS-ready, since Detroit likes their guys to be seasoned and earn their stripes, etc…
There’s no way Brunnstrom isn’t signed. He’ll likely get a two-way deal and they’ll chance waiving him when Mursak comes back. I’m not entirely sure he’d clear (depending on what kind of interest there was in him in the summer), but there’s no reason to chance it now in case there are additional injuries by the time The Sak Is Back.
If it were up to ME, I’d have Nyquist on the squad. No question. That kid is LEGIT. As excited I’ve been about a prospect in a long, long time.
by Michael Petrella on Sep 28, 2011 10:41 PM CDT reply actions
Oh, and Ryan Johnson
I said the same thing this morning. I have no idea what the fuck he’s still doing here. He doesn’t belong at all. When he signed his tryout, I thought for sure he’d get signed before Brunnstrom because he’s more of a Red Wings-type player, but he’s been nothing short of useless and unimpressive.
by Michael Petrella on Sep 28, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I am legitimately excited about our prospect depth
Seeing how close these kids are is extremely promising. I’m hoping that the saving grace with Brunnstrom has been how he’s talked endlessly since the camp invite about how much he wants to be in Detroit. I don’t know if that will make a difference when it comes to putting him on the wire, but here’s to hoping.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 28, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just worried that we'll lose one due to the waiver situation
It’s nice to have too many good prospects though.
You're wrong Mick. That blob may have peanuts, but it ain't no Baby Ruth.
The only one waiver eligible is Brunnstrom
Nyquist and Tatar can go up and down and up and down and up and down as much as they want for the next three-ish seasons.
Chris Conner will have to be waived, but no one will take him.
Fabian Brunnstrom would have to be signed and THEN waived, and someone MAY take him. But again, there’s no reason to send him down (aside from a perfect scenario that JJ and I like)
by Michael Petrella on Sep 28, 2011 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he should take the last spot in our core with Mursak out
For me that seems to be the safest bet on keeping as many as possible.
You're wrong Mick. That blob may have peanuts, but it ain't no Baby Ruth.
My main thing about that is...
Why bother chancing it? I agree with you completely — I think two or three months in Grand Rapids, learning the system, would go a long way. But with Mursak out until Christmas, and Emmerton likely taking 13th by default… that fourteenth forward slot is wide open. May as well have Brunnstrom (can we start calling him Bruno?) practicing with the Red Wings, getting spot duty in the lineup, as opposed to playing in Grand Rapids. Essentially the same thing… maybe, maybe not?
by Michael Petrella on Sep 28, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Couldn't hurt
If having a guy that everybody knows can go nuts and drop a hatty on the opposition sitting below you on the depth chart isn’t motivation, then nothing is.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 28, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Shall we begin the over/under for a signature on paper?
Let’s start with Sunday, 9pm.
I’ll take the over (meaning Monday or later).
by Michael Petrella on Sep 28, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
When's the last game?
2 hours after that.
by Amerinadian on Sep 28, 2011 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
See... that's where I was going...
The last one is on Sunday at 5pm. Should be over around 8ish.
by Michael Petrella on Sep 28, 2011 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I'm on the over
But not by much.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 28, 2011 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
If nothing else
Tonight’s game showed that the prospects are not bad, and with some seasoning and developing they are going to be constributors to the Wings in a few years.
Also, what about the speed of this team? When I’m not noticing Darren Helm as the only fast skater, that’s awesome.
Mursak has mean speed.
Tatar moves quick.
Nyquist moves quick laterally, I can’t tell if he has open ice speed yet.
So bright, gotta wear shades, homey.
by Michael Petrella on Sep 28, 2011 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Emmerton, too
It’s been a long time since I’ve been this excited about prospects.
by Amerinadian on Sep 28, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
my goodness, you're telling me!
I was at the game tonite and on more than 1 occasion I said “wow, look at the speed of helm, I love it!” and then went on to notice it was Tatar instead.. man, that kid is quick!
by kylegroombridge on Sep 28, 2011 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Prospects
All the prospects impressed me tonight, even Erhardt.
And Helm STILL has absolutely NO FU$KING HANDS. He could have easily had 3 breakaway SH goals.
Oh, and no matter who who put on the PK, it still sucks too.
Bottom line, 5 v 5 our C- griffins squad > A- hawks squad.
He needs to work on his hands.
But at least twice you can say at least it was a good back check by the blackhawks. Or more accurately nice hooking.
"Hey Laserlips. Your mama was a snowblower."
Most def
Yeah, Helmer did get hooked ALOT.
by Red Wing Nut on Sep 29, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Definitately a head hit, definately a suspension coming, but...
this is the detriment of having such a cut and dry rule concerning head shots. That was mostly CHI Smith’s fault and will draw the “keep your head up” line out of “old hockey” pundits. I guess I’m first.
You could say that Ben Smith should have had his head up...
and he should have. But at the same time you are trying to control head shots. As such, you need players to take the “safer” play which in this case would have been to avoid the hit altogether. Take away the center of the ice and force Ben Smith out wide. Once he committed to the check this is what is possible, especially since Smith wasn’t coming purely north south.
"Hey Laserlips. Your mama was a snowblower."
seems to me the "safer" play would have resulted in a breakaway...
and then it’s all but impossible to play defense in that situation.
Watch the replay.
If he doesn’t go for the hit he could have taken the center of the ice. Not a breakaway. its inches either way. Basically its a mute point. Its done, and now Smith is likely going to be Suspended for at least 4-5 games.
"Hey Laserlips. Your mama was a snowblower."
Long time lurker here...
I was at the game. Can someone tell me what the hit looked like on TV? From where I was at it looked like a clean hard hit on someone who was skating with his head down.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
The replay video is posted above
but what I see is a guy lining another guy up for a big hit and failing to make the proper adjustment when that guy makes a cut.
The rules are clear – you cannot hit people in the head if you can help it. Since I believe Brendan Smith could have helped it, I think he’ll be in trouble.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 28, 2011 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
could this not fall under the "putting yourself in a vulnerable position"
subcategory of bording?
It could
That would be the distinction between whether Brendan Smith could have avoided the head or not. Ultimately, that’s the thing upon which the decision will hinge.
I don’t think any rational person doubts that Ben Smith’s last-second cut had something to do with it, the entire question is whether he did it too late for Brendan Smith to have prevented himself from hitting the head.
… and then comes the discussion about whether Brendan Smith should be lining up for a hit that even has the potential to be a headshot int he event of a last-second cut, much like AirmanSD discusses above.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 28, 2011 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
the should Zdeno Chara be allowed to be on the ice against say Chris Conner because any hit he would lay on him has the “potential” probably even a “high potential” of hitting his head?
It’s part of the discussion, to be sure. The concept of “Pronger Fissix” doesn’t apply anymore – you cannot hit people in the head, whether or not you’re twice as tall.
If Chara has to end up playing with additional care to avoid head shots on unfortunately smaller players, then it’s an adjustment he’ll have to make, just like people skating in on him have had to adjust to playing with a guy who can lay a poke check in on you from his own blue line as you’re crossing center ice.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
not quite the same.
getting poke checked isn’t getting you a misconduct and 8 games.
What?
I didn’t say they were the same, I said they’re adjustments that have to be made as a result of Chara’s height.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed, being a large defensemen doesn’t mean you have to hit, it gives you other advantages as well… longer stick, longer stride, harder to move off the puck, etc.
Shorter players have had to adjust to the height of the opposing players, I see nothing wrong with taller players having to do the same.
I'm just pointing out the "adjustments" shouldn't be used as counterpoints because
1) Big Guy has to limit his own performance
whereas
2) Little Guy has to adjust to someone else’s
Little guys have advantages too, usually it’s easier to be a nifty puck handler since there is less stick in the way so you can move it faster, and typically shorter players are more agile.
Everyone has advantages and disadvantages that they have to adjust to. It’s why there is still a place for smaller players in the game.
Also, I like playing devil’s advocate :)
For an example, I bet if Chara tried to lay out a small speedy player in open ice like that, the smaller player could just move around him. I don’t remember when I saw Chara try to make a big open ice hit like that last, it’s a move that can leave you screwed if you miss.
Hip checks are much better in open ice because you have a wider contact area, it’s much easier to protect against someone zigging around you.
at least Chara in this case would be trying
and not wondering what he could or could not do.
Huge hits ALWAYS leave you open to look like a complete ass, that’s what’s great about them. When the player has to stammer himself because he’s afraid of a suspension if he connects and the other guy tries to pull a sweet deke that he’s not talented enough to pull off, why is the checker culpable?
At no point did I mean to insinuate that there was no place for littler players in the nhl. I love little guys who make big dumb oafs look just like that. I just don’t think that you can put a level of hesitation into some player’s game and not others.
So what are you saying then?
That Chara should be allowed to hit people in the head or he shouldn’t have to try to prevent that from happening because he’s tall and therefore it’s “unavoidable”?
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm saying
that the onus cannot always be put purely on the hitting player, and that a cut and dry rule banning head shots has to then have credible criteria as to what is or isn’t a head “shot”… is a head contact the same as a head shot?
I don’t believe that “principle point of contact OR targeted the head” allows for hockey players to play hockey. Perhaps an “AND” instead, but then the discussion turns to “how do you tell if he targeted the head from 10 ft prior to the hit”
Either way this discussion is proof enough that this rule will lead to “lawyering” by both sides of the argument and if that’s the case then players cannot play to their full extent because nobody is 100% clear on the rule, and then the game suffers.
I don’t agree that the game suffers from punishing hits like what Brendan Smith laid on Ben Smith last night.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t know if I understand this point:
“Either way this discussion is proof enough that this rule will lead to "lawyering" by both sides of the argument and if that’s the case then players cannot play to their full extent because nobody is 100% clear on the rule, and then the game suffers.”
Every rule leads to lawyering, that’s the definition of lawyering. You can argue technicalities on anything. I think this will lead to less lawyering than last years version. The rule is now if you “hit a guy primarily in the head, you’re in deep shite” as opposed to all the little details of the previous version. “What exactly is lateral or blindside?”
Pretty much expect any player who hits another player square in the dome to sit for 2 games minimum, get marked as an offender going forward and any repeats getting 5+. This one had an in person hearing provision, so I’d expect 5 right out of the gate.
It’s really as cut and dry as it can possibly get.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Tweet Tweet
I think there is definitely a strong argument that the hit was not:
a)lateral or blindside
and b) did not TARGET the head
so the question becomes does the and of and/or principle point of contact supersede the other two criterion of rule 48?
Rule 48 was changed in June
They took out the lateral or blindside provision to make it illegal to deliver any check where the head is targeted or the principle point of contact.
Since the head was the principal point of contact, it’s within the rule. However, all that means is the refs were acting completely within their authority to give Smith a major and game misconduct.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I see the clip now...
sorry I must have looked past it. I’m still a bit delirious with my Cardinals pulling off the magic tonite.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
hahaha
I wouldn’t blame anybody for claiming temporary baseball delirium after what happened in both leagues tonight.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I was at the game trying to follow the baseball world through a magic phone...
And then went back to Hawks fans giving me flack… It’s been an interesting nite.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
I agree with your assessment...
I just know in real time on the end they were attacking it looked like a big clean hit and my eyes went elsewhere around the ice until I noticed someone sliding face down on the ice… And they didn’t show any replays on the jumbotron which is probably a good thing. It could have gotten really ugly if a replay was shown.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
A lot of bloggers seem to think that Smith turned into Smith to get hit like that and shouldn’t be punished, even though he likely will be.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Sep 28, 2011 11:46 PM CDT reply actions
Smith's cut had a lot to do with what happened.
But honestly think if it were a Red Wing player how would we feel then? I know I wouldn’t be happy if they said it was all the red wings players fault. In the modern NHL the defensive player knows that he is the player with the restrictions (for better or worse) and has to avoid those plays if at all possible.
"Hey Laserlips. Your mama was a snowblower."
Man, what a great game!
Again, I was at this game with my fiancee.. and man did that line of Emmerton, Nyquist, and Brunnstrom get me excited! Every time they were on the ice it seemed they were doing something great.. man, I wish all 3 could be on the big club.. maybe in a couple years that’ll be the case.. either way, we CANNOT lose this Brunnstrom guy.. man, he’s good. I’d take him over Miller any day of the week. There. I said it.
by kylegroombridge on Sep 28, 2011 11:47 PM CDT reply actions
I don’t think Brunnstrom and Miller are competing for the same spot. Brunnstrom isn’t really going to kill penalties. If anything, he’s shooting for Hudler’s job
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 28, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Let’s send Huds to Grand Rapids then
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Sep 28, 2011 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
well I'm not so sure..
Miller is the 12th forward right now right?? I’m saying I’d take Brunnstrom as my 12th and sit miller.. I mean, we have enough PK’ing forwards in helm, abby, datsyuk, fil, etc.. Hudler has played pretty well lately from what I can tell, so I say have Miller and Emmerton as your 13 and 14 forwards.
by kylegroombridge on Sep 28, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
If you’re going to take one skilled forward and make him play the PK, why not make Brunnstrom then? I kind of don’t want Datsyuk and Filppula playing on the PK anymore. I’m glad that they can do that in a pinch and that they’re very good at it, but I’m not interested in using two of Datsyuk’s 20-24 minutes per night killing penalties when we have a very good PK specialist in Miller on the roster.
Heck, maybe it’s not a bad idea to make Brunnstrom play some PK so he can learn that defensive responsibility like those who have come before him.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess I just enjoy general skill more than PK skill.. Who am I missing, I’m drawing out the lines and I’m not seeing a 4th center.. or is that what Mursak was before he was injured?? :
Hudler-Datsyuk-Cleary
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Abby-Helm-Bertuzzi
Brunnstrom-Eaves-Holmstrom
Miller
Emmerton
by kylegroombridge on Sep 29, 2011 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
well if you insist on having a guy who can play center for the fourth line
… without splitting Abby and Helm, then Brunnstrom is not competing with Miller, since Miller and Emmerton are the two odd men out who actually can play that position.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Miller plays center?? I don’t think I’ve ever seen him play that..
I’m just going by what I’ve been reading from Ansar Khan and company… apparently those top 3 lines are fairly set.. a 2nd generation “2 kids and a goat” line is starting with Bert playing with helm and abby.. but I guess if you take abby off that line then he could play 4th line center..
by kylegroombridge on Sep 29, 2011 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
he can play center
It’s not his preferred or best position, but if you need a guy who can do it for the fourth line, Miller can do that.
by J.J. from Kansas on Sep 29, 2011 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I had to laugh after Brunnstrom's first goal
a Hawks fan behind me yelled “don’t expect to see anything else from him the rest of the year”… I felt like referring him to the Griffins roster, but decided against it. I have to say on that second goal he reminded me a lot of Holmer.. and that made me happy.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
Didn't realize there was a game tonight...
damn shame for Smith (ours and theirs). He’s definetly gonna get a suspension for sure, and I hope the other guy is ok for Chicago. I ended up watching the finishes of those baseball games (and the Tigers finishing 95-67) and suffice to say… if you didn’t see the end of teh Baltimore and Tampa games, you missed some serious history tonight
Fan of the Tigers ~ Red Wings ~ Lions - No Better Town to be a sports fan of!
Avid Gamer and Anime Junkie
Ugh
Losing to Chicago is no good. Both the Canucks and Wings are supposed to go undefeated against them. WE HAD A DEAL.
It was preseason
The contract clearly stipulates “regular season and playoffs”. Read the fine print.
Preseason matters 0.
I wouldn’t care if the Wings lost every single preseason game. Especially with the lineup that was put on the ice tonight.
I hate Jonathon Ericsson.
my thoughts
Good game overall, the Hawks A squad showed their experience when they were able to rally at the end, oh well.
Johnson is useless. I kept seeing Miller and Eaves on the ice and thinking Helm should be out there with them, then thinking “Helm is useless this shift, what’s going on?”
Smith has been trying too hard this preseason. Hasn’t been playing patiently. Patience is what makes TPH so good it’s a good skill for a defenseman (well, or any hockey player – see Datsyuk) to learn. Now that I look at the clip again it looks like he was trying to make up for being caught out of position a bit, when you are chasing the player and not facing them your options are not as good. And making a cut like that with as tall as he is makes it easy for him to lose track of the other guy… If Ben Smith had been better he would have cut back harder and let Brendan Smith fly by and then had a wide open chance. Not the wisest choice.
Lastly, Ericsson was terrible last night, he just played lazy. I know he has a shiny new contract and it’s just the preseason, but he should have been the most experienced and best defenseman on the ice last night and he was the worst. His clearing chances were lazy, his passes were lazy, it was awful. If I’m on the Wing’s coaching staff Ericsson would be puking his guts out in the next practice after that performance. And if he plays that bad when we are 10+ games into the season he is in the press box, or possibly waived if he can’t be traded.
Great observations. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I am most disappointed, not in Smith trying too hard, but in Big Rig’s crappy play. He looked genuinely good during the playoffs last season. Something happened and he solidified his game. Now, it’s as if he just rolled out of bed and onto the ice. It was a disgraceful performance by him. I want to still believe he can improve and be what we want him to be, but DAMN…. just TRY!
Get your Al the Octopus
byjenniferleigh.etsy.com/
agreed
Smith screwing up is expected, he’s new… he’s pretty new to the AHL too so playing a full season there will be good to get his eyes and awareness up to NHL-entry standards.
Ericsson was just pissing me off because he looked like he didn’t care, or was stoned… either one is bad.
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