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Everyone's favorite whipping boy


So I want you to consider two players based on their first "full year" of playing meaningful minutes on D:

Player A - 26 years old. Had 2 definite HOF all-time great defensemen and 1 high quality, all star puck moving defenceman, and had 2 other experienced but young defencemen playing alongside him. In front, the top 6 were experienced and mostly in the beginning of their primes (though one was clearly come out of his prime quickly). 10 players (including player A) put up at least 20 assists (which I think is a great target for a 5th/6th D). He had sparing PP minutes and very little PK time. Took some pretty dumb penalties at times and had some rough stretches, even got scratched from time to time since there were 10 different defencemen that got in that season.

Star-divide

Player B - 25 years old. Had 2 definite HOF all-time great defensemen (one at least was an all time great) playing the top line. Line 2 had 2 studs really coming into their own, known as a solid defensive pair but not much offensive power. Often paired with an oft-out of position, undersized "veteren" that lacked greatness in any given category. The top 6 was just as experienced with most of the major players being in the middle of their primes rather than just entering them. He has good size and fluid skating ability with a scoring presence and vision not shared by most defencemen. Due to inexperience, he gets caught out of position often, though one could put a big reason on having to help his lesser talented counterpart all too often. Only 7 players on this team put up 20 assists.

Player A - 06-07 68 games 1/21/22 +0 20:39atoi

Player B - 09-10 62 games 4/9/13 -15 16:42atoi

Obviously I'm not in the slightest trying to say that Jonathan Ericsson is in anyway better than Niklas Kronwall. But I hadn't ever really examined what the team makeup, strengths, weaknesses, etc around either of them in their first "full year" with the club. Ericsson's first full year comes 2 years removed from winning a Stanley Cup. He's stuck with Brett Lebda as a partner (or Derek Meech), who while I'm sure everyone would love Lebda to be back with this group, I can't say it helped to develop Ericsson offensively or defensively. Kronwall got to play with Andreas Lilja and Danny Markov. While neither of them are world class defencemen, they both were decent sized, stay at home, don't get beat in your own zone kind of guys even when they were young. In front of Kronwall was Lidstrom, Chelios, and Matthieu Schneider. Three very good offensive defencemen to learn from.

Ericsson has played with Lidstrom and Rafalski, so he knows how to be an offensive threat from the blue line, he knows how to use positioning, but I think he's also had this huge bar put way above him by fans when he didn't deserve it. Yes, he was highly touted as the next great defenceman, but I really don't see why that still can't be. He's only 27 so he easily (barring a major injury) could play 10+ more years. He's a very solid skater. He doesn't have to over work himself to get in position, he can pour on speed to jump in on a rush (though you rarely see that in him, I think because he couldn't do that and leave Lebda alone when he first came up), he has as good of hands as anyone out there (for his level of experience, I honestly think his hands could one day rival Lidstroms. He won't put up the points like Lidstrom did, but just his soft touch passing, perfect tape to tape passes, stretch passes, will look very similar, very precise and accurate, just like Lidstrom). Ericsson has all the tools to be a top pair defenceman. He shows all the talent and ability to do it. I really think playing with Lebda stunted his growth. Lebda's knack for being out of position, jumping a rush that didn't happen, getting boxed in the corner by bigger forwards, caused Ericsson to develop bad habits of being out of position, trying to help out when he should have stayed home, forcing passes, and leaving the goalie hanging out to dry. Last year was his first year not playing with Lebda. He got to play with the late Ruslan Salei. Ericcson was a +8 last year. His first year on the plus side. I don't think that's just a minor coincodence. Salei gave him on ice, active veteran help. Salei by no means was a great defenceman, but he wasn't just average either. He didn't get beat in his own zone often. I can't imagine how much Salei probably invested in him and retaught him positioning, just by being in the right position himself.

Jonathan Ericcson is not going to be a hall of fame defenceman. But I would bet, neither is Niklas Kronwall. Kronwall will receive more praise because it's probably deserved. Ericsson is always going to receive more criticism, though I don't think it's nearly as deserved. Let's not destroy another young man next year with Brendan Smith and expect that he's going to put up 10/25/35 in his first year. He'll get the benefit of playing behind White, Kronwall, and at least 1 other really good defenceman (hopefully Lidstrom). But he needs support from the fanbase just as much as he needs support from his defensive partner.

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I think some of the criticism this season

on Ericsson comes from the fact that he signed a big contract in the off-season. Whenever that happens the bar raises a bit.

It's like ESPN Detroit, except less uptight. The Detroit Hustle

by jehu22 on Feb 1, 2012 6:12 PM CST reply actions  

I think that the criticism of Ericsson based on his contract

Should be placed on Ken not on Ericsson himself.
I think the criticisms that should stick involve his taking penalties when he gets beat on coverage.
I’d like to see him score more, given the ice time, but that’s wishing not really criticism.
His contract was squarely Ken’s fault. It may turn out to be a good idea, based upon whatever voodoo it is our beneficent leader uses to make these decisions.
If it comes out that the contract was conditionally dependent upon certain clearly articulated expectations, then Ericsson’s failures will be an interesting story, to be sure.
I just don’t know about all of it, so I’ve tried to ignore the monetary aspect as much as i can.

"I'll smile in June."

by Lords of Olympia on Feb 1, 2012 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong.

I don’t think Ericsson is undeserving of the criticism. I just the contract created increased expectations this season when he wasn’t really living up to the lesser expectations in the first place. At this point in his career, he is what he is and I don’t see much improvement. He’s not going to improve his foot speed significantly. He might gain a little more awareness, but he’s got a long way to go. And his passing isn’t going to get a whole lot better. I just don’t see him being what the Red Wings wanted him to be.

It's like ESPN Detroit, except less uptight. The Detroit Hustle

by jehu22 on Feb 1, 2012 8:54 PM CST up reply actions  

i totally agree with the criticism of his play...

…and i totally think you’re warranted to expect things from him, given just what jersey he’s wearing.
i think the actual money in his contract should probably be placed on Ken, though.
i honestly can’t see ericsson believing his own contributions warranted the contract he got.
but who knows.

"I'll smile in June."

by Lords of Olympia on Feb 1, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a solid point.

It's like ESPN Detroit, except less uptight. The Detroit Hustle

by jehu22 on Feb 1, 2012 10:35 PM CST up reply actions  

A big contract always brings more scrutiny, but it’s his lack of progress that bothers me the most. He makes the same mistakes over and over again.

by HockeyFanOhio on Feb 1, 2012 6:51 PM CST reply actions  

I stopped reading at "who while I'm sure everyone would love Lebda to be back with this group..."

Kidding, but I was tempted.

My only real large beef with Ericcson is his propensity for terrible passes coming out of the zone. I just expect better out of someone with a contract that size.

After calling him shit box for the first ~30 games, I’ve really started trying to look at it like Flip’s contract, hopefully down the road it will be a great value.

Goalies are enforcers too.
Twitter- @nkehagias

by AppState on Feb 1, 2012 6:58 PM CST reply actions  

:D

Happy to hear i’m not the only one who’s given up the shit box appellation.
Hopefully, in the off season, Ericsson hangs out with whoever Hudler hung out with over last summer to get his groove back.

"I'll smile in June."

by Lords of Olympia on Feb 1, 2012 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't say I've given it up completely,

I still break it out whenever I see a shitty outlet pass from him. But, I don’t reflexively refer to him like that anymore.

Goalies are enforcers too.
Twitter- @nkehagias

by AppState on Feb 1, 2012 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Very nice

There’s so much moaning and wailing about Ericcson’s contract. The real meaning of the contract is that the Wings’s braintrust values Ericcson. That speaks volumes. I mean, don’t you trust the braintrust?

I liked your comment about his hands one day rivaling Lidstrom’s because one thing I noticed in last night’s Calgary game was Ericcson’s active stick breaking up passes in his dzone, a couple were saucerpasses up off the ice. Just me, maybe, but I think that’s the work of a good solid dman.

Remember that Ericcson was a forward from the time he was a youngun until he got to the Wings’s organization, whereupon they made him a defenseman. What I see is a very talented player, but one caught in the middle of extremes. He was converted to a dman late in his career, so he has been caught between his natural forwardism and his new expected role as a dman, He has a slapshot from the point to be envied (remember, he won an AHL hardest shot contest) but his natural instinct is to stickhandle and attack the net. He’s big and can be physical, but is capable of the puck-posession touch pass style the Wings insist on.

I guess what I’m saying is that right now he’s figuring out his game — albeit late but that’s what it is — and that the braintrust sees that too and thinks it worth the dollars and the wait. I’m not to argue with them.

by Brad Hughes on Feb 1, 2012 7:11 PM CST reply actions  

He has an absolute rocket of a shot, but rarely uses it, and even more rarely puts it somewhere useful. There is definitely no one on the team with a harder shot, but for D-men these days, if your shot isn’t accurate, its not getting through traffic and it won’t matter how hard it is. Lidstrom is good at getting it through, and getting it where it needs to be.

by NMJ on Feb 1, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

i wish there was a way to get some reporting on this, too.

in order to kind of take the team’s temperature on ericsson, get some feedback from babcock and assistant coaches on how they think he’s progressing.

"I'll smile in June."

by Lords of Olympia on Feb 1, 2012 7:16 PM CST reply actions  

Sorry, not buying it

Rig’s passes are hot garbage. He rarely hits anyone in stride, other than members of the other team. I don’t mind that he plays soft. I don’t mind that to take a slapshot in the 3rd period, he needs to start his windup before the first intermission. Although he’s overpaid, I wouldn’t ask him to give back the checks when Kenny prints them. I’m even willing to forgive some of his coverage lapses and picking bad times to pinch since that’s something he’ll learn with time.

I just can’t handle the terrible decision making and skill when it comes to his outlet passes. On a team like the Wings, the first pass has got to be right. Ericsson just flat out can’t get it done. For that, he keeps the Shitbox label.

by dteowner on Feb 1, 2012 8:44 PM CST reply actions  

honestly

I wouldn’t mind seeing him thrown back into playing forward again. A experimentation to see what the dude has. I’ve always notice is hands and stick work. It’s obvious he was once a forward.

by chez_bazaldo on Feb 2, 2012 1:58 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

I back the RIG

Ive always liked big E. Look at some of the stupid plays that Stuart has made! He has been in the league much longer than E and makes alot of bad plays. I think that E will be a good defensemen for the Wings he just needs a little more mentoring. Salei (may he rest in peace) was a good d man but howmany times did you find yourselves yelling at the TV because of a dumb play that he made? IMO I think E is going do be solid for the Wings, like I said he just needs a little more mentoring from a solid D man!

by Birddog17 on Feb 2, 2012 8:34 AM CST reply actions  

you make some excellent points, and maybe all of the critiques we lay on him aren’t warranted, but if we stop – then just exactly who are we going to refer to as Riggy Shitbox???

Hmmm???

Answer me that, Batman.

"Need more shoot" Pavel Datsyuk

by Kendal on Feb 2, 2012 9:06 AM CST reply actions  

CONKER

Couldn’t help myself!

by Birddog17 on Feb 2, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

ConkBox?

eww

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by Josh Howard on Feb 2, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

In two more years detractors will be saying it was a good contract.

Honestly we as a fan base are spoiled when it comes to expectations from defensmen. We have had 20 years of watching the best/2nd best talent of his era (only person that can hold a candle to Lidstrom in a comparison would be Borque). The only person ever better at his position is Orr. And while I did not watch him play Harvey is about the only other player that could stand up against the litmus test that #5 would put anyone threw.

Hell I have it in my sig and I stand by it Ericcson next year will more than likely take Stuart’s place in the lineup (due to Gleason resigning with carolina). Smith will more than likely be slotted in at #5 slot and I personally hope Commie comes back and splits time with Kindl again next year unless Kindl progresses past him.

What I think alot of people forget about #52 is that he has only played a defensive position for around 5 years compared to most at his position who play for half their life in the position at his age. He seems to be molding into a fine reliable defensive shut down player with possible 2 way D development when he gains more confidence/composure in his role of offense on the blue line.

If their aren't enough people crazy in this world it would be woefully boring.

Ericcson will be a stable #4-5 in the depth chart by his NEW contracts end. And when looking what the cap will be in three years his contract will be affordable.

by dwkrueger on Feb 2, 2012 12:18 PM CST reply actions  

Hope you're right

But I just don’t see it. A player can learn good decision making when it comes to positioning and pinching, but that first pass is about “seeing the game” and either ya do or ya don’t. Shitbox, quite simply, does not, and that’s not going to change. He might (or might not, unfortunately) eventually learn to limit his defensive brain farts, but he’s shown zero signs of ever “seeing the game”. Even if everything else somehow magically comes together for him, Shitbox will always be a liability in his own end if the puck is on his stick.

by dteowner on Feb 2, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

apparently this is a shitbox love-fest

so I’ll be the asshole and ask the question….why are we still discussing his rookie season? I will admit he is playing better lately, but I don’t ever see him being more than a 4/5 defenseman. Also, I hope he never shoots the puck again, because 80% of the time he shoots it into a defenders leg guards. That is a great way to give the other team a break away.

by Red, White and a Mile high on Feb 2, 2012 2:18 PM CST reply actions  

Rig has 44 shots on goal and 20 missed shots

He has had 31 shot attempts blocked. 32.64% of his shots are blocked.

Brad Stuart’s percentage is 36.5%

For reference, Nick Lidstrom’s is 26%, but he takes a LOT more shots.

Ian White leads the Red Wings’ defense in most shots blocked with 74 (27%)

By my calculations, he’s also been the cause of exactly zero breakaways against due to blocked shots this season. Missing shots over the net fired so hard that they rebound out of your zone is also a way to give the other team a breakaway, but that happens just about as often.

by J.J. from Kansas on Feb 2, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

nice stat

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by Josh Howard on Feb 3, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm sorry....

ever since that game a few weeks ago, whenver I see Ericsson’s name, all that comes to mind is…

Don't Panic!

by 42jeff on Feb 3, 2012 12:36 PM CST reply actions  

Convert Ericsson back to a forward

(the position he grew up playing)

I think he would rock on the 3rd line!!!

by Da Soo on Feb 6, 2012 6:34 PM CST reply actions  

We already have too many 3rd and 4th liners...

He’s actually been much more solid this season. So… I’m not gonna get all wound up and curse his name if he makes a mistake. His positioning is much improved and he’s using the body to push people off pucks. It’s just that first pass that needs a little work. Dare I say… Ericsson might be a decent 2nd pairing guy next year if called upon. He’s shown a lot of improvement this season and things are clicking… especially with Commie out there.

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by Josh Howard on Feb 8, 2012 8:07 AM CST up reply actions  

But what about when Kindl and Smith are on the corps as well?

I completely agree that Riggy has looked better over the last month or two, and we’ve credited it at least partially to Commie on occasion. Do you think being paired with Kronner or White(Assuming Liddy returns or we sign a top pairing guy, leaving one of them as a second pair) will be as beneficial?

I don’t like him with Kronwall, mostly just because Kronner already has the ability to jump up in the play, don’t know that he and White would be good enough together, thinking about White’s past with subpar partners.

Granted, I’m assuming that Stuart and Commie leave.

Goalies are enforcers too.
Twitter- @nkehagias

by AppState on Feb 8, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I don’t disagree that there isn’t going to be a conundrum come next year… it’s just that I’m not super worried about that right this second.

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by Josh Howard on Feb 8, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

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